Start Over and Rise: Transforming Your Life and Business with Sara Burton

Sue Davies: 00:00:02

Note: Transcription is created with the help of AI and so accuracy is not guaranteed. Please check back with the episode audio to ensure you have the correct context and wording.

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals, the podcast that allows every therapist, now tech and stylist, to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams. Each episode, we'll be looking at a different area of the industry.

And along the way, I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who will be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career. I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional. Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Hi there and welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals. Today we're welcoming Sara Burton. She's a transformational coach and the creator of the Start over and Rise mentoring program.

Sara's journey has been one of resilience, reinvention and unshakable confidence. And I first met her in Clubhouse, member Clubhouse, back in lockdown, when we were all vying for those invitations.

And I met her in a room on Clubhouse and I've been around her world ever since.

And over the last few years, Sara has experienced some significant personal and professional challenges that have led to her developing a unique system that can help you break free from uncertainty and step boldly into your new chapter. Her program empowers you to drop what no longer serves you and develop that unshakable confidence that she's now living herself.

And Sara's methods are deeply personal and powerfully effective. And I can attest to this, having gone through the beginnings of this program that she's now created with her.

And she's drawing from decades of experience as a coach and as a corporate, corporate worker. And she's been in publishing, she's been in all sorts of different things which I'm sure we will touch on.

And she's been there supporting others through their life transitions and challenges as part of that process. So today, Sarah's here to sh.

To share her story, the lessons that she's learned along the way, and to helpfully, hopefully helpfully and hopefully give you actionable advice. Because as salon professionals, we quite often get a bit stuck in our ways and we can be uncertain and unsure about how we're going to move forward.

So get ready to be inspired as Sara reveals how you can rise above the challenges, reignite your purpose, and carve out a life and a career that excites you. When you wake up every day, I'll see you on the other side.

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Find the link in the show notes and see how Jenna can transform the way you work. So, Sarah, good morning. And how are you?

Sara Burton: 00:03:11

I'm good. You look gorgeous, by the way.

Sue Davies: 00:03:14

Thank you. So you're here today to talk to us all about start over and rise and how that has kind of impacted on your life.

It's had a bit of an impact on my life. We know, like all the beginnings of your program did.

So your transformation has been a little bit of a roller coaster, hasn't it, over the last couple of years? And what. And the way that you've gone through your processes and it's just, it's inspiring really. Just so we.

You can see how the restart process, it isn't, it's not necessarily a smooth pathway and it sort of has its ups and downs and you kind of, and I know you sort of taken steps back again and then, and then restarted again. And now you're finally here, like the phoenix out of the fire kind of thing. So. Yeah. So what is it?

What was the moment when you realized that you actually did need to start over and rise kind of thing? And what does that process look like?

Sara Burton: 00:04:08

Oh, my goodness. I think, I think how, I, if, if I just sort of say how I've kind of come to this concept of starting over and it being a positive thing.

I'm not unusual, right. I'm 53. And a lot of the things that I've gone through in recent years are what everybody, you know, most people go through these things.

It's called life. And I think the where I'm coming from now is, is exactly that. This is life. And I want to equip myself.

I think that's the thing that got me here, was that when we get to a place where, okay, big change happens, you're faced with uncertainty.

Challenges are ahead when you know who you are and when you trust in your, your ability to navigate uncertainty, when you develop unshakable confidence in yourself, nothing can throw you off course. And it took me, like you say, when did you realize you start over?

Well, I can go Back to, you know, when you first go away to university, for example, and it hits you that your lifestyle is suddenly very, very different. You know, if you open the fridge and there's no food in it, it's because you haven't been shopping. Responsibility, you know, with your.

My daughter's just gone through this, this is what I bring this up because she was like, I'm doing startovers, mum. But it's, it's absolutely true.

You know, every time a circumstance changes, if we don't change and evolve with it, we start to move out of alignment, we start to resist change.

And I think that when do we know it's a good time to start over is exactly when you, you feel stuck, you're plateauing, you, you start to feel frustration because you're doing all the things and you're not getting anywhere. It's that kind of thing that I want to start promoting.

The fact that you go, stop, stop doing what you've been doing and take a look, you know, take that time out, slow down, to speed up.

And I think that's the thing that has got me here, is that it is that we do have to stop because we live in a very, very fast moving world, you know, and everybody's demanding things of us so quickly.

But actually the best thing we can do for ourselves time and time again is to allow ourselves to stop, to think, to take stock, to sort through everything and look at where we actually want to be going and what we want to be doing. And that's it.

You can't, if you, if you skip those first stages, you get yourself into sabotage and procrastination and all of those things that we're like, you know, we don't want to be in.

Sue Davies: 00:07:11

No, absolutely. And I think, you know, we, we both know that.

I think we both struggled massively with things like procrastination and overthinking and we've had these conversations previously and I think that in the, in the salon sector, you know, we are, we've got a high number of neurodivergent business owners in the industry and, and we see so often people being hit by overwhelm, people being hit by procrastination, people being hit by confidence issues and, and it's something that's like, it's, I mean it's, it's.

I think there just seems to be more and more of it happening and I think some of it's like due to comparison with social media, some of it is maybe due to neurodivergency and Other times it just may be that you haven't got the experience so you lack the confidence.

But I think taking that time out, I know, I mean I've gone through a bit of a transformation this year and last year and I sort of had quite a few reawakenings to different things that have made me have to make changes and, and I think it's like it's, and I found it invaluable taking time out and actually giving my head space to think and face. 10 it is, it's that review process, isn't it?

And just sort of looking at what you have got, looking at what's part of it that you don't want and working out how you can remove it and step forward into something better. That's going to serve you more, isn't it?

Sara Burton: 00:08:31

Definitely. I mean I've always said I, I, I worked for an amazing man many years ago when I was a magazine publisher. His name was Felix Dennis. Google him.

He's a self made multimillionaire. Unfortunately he's passed away now.

But one of the things that he always used to instead still into the culture of the publishing house was to give us all that, you know, power in ourselves to, to, to try new things and, and explore, be curious about anything that's to do with your, you know, to do with your job. And one of the things that he instilled in us was it is harder, sorry, it is easier to start something new than it is to let the old go.

And now that is a very powerful quote.

And, and, and when you, when you understand what that actually means, it can really, really show you what you're actually doing in your everyday behavior. And I think self awareness is, is massive.

You said something earlier about confidence and you said, you know, when you haven't got the, we've got the confidence because you've got the experience and I think it isn't necessary. Those two aren't necessarily the same thing.

You can be very young and if you know who you are and what you're about, that's where real confidence comes from.

Sue Davies: 00:09:56

That's very true because just do it.

Sara Burton: 00:09:58

You know, because I used to say just do it and then I beat myself up massively when I'm like, why can't I just do it? You know, what is physically stopping me? Because sometimes it can feel like that.

So that concept of it's easier to start something new, you know, take a salon for, you know, in a, in a salon, for example, it might be, you know, neurodivergence. We're very easy to sell to. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:10:24

And I don't, I don't. Sara is, is neurodivergent. Yes, I had a neurodivergent.

Sara Burton: 00:10:30

Yeah, I think.

Sue Davies: 00:10:32

And I, I have a couple of traits maybe, but. Yeah, I don't know.

Sara Burton: 00:10:38

Anyway, we've just demonstrated the, the interrupting and stuff is a classic one. So that happens.

But you know, when you're, when you are in a space where, you know, somebody might come along and sell something to you and you might think, yeah, actually that would be a great idea, I'm going to reintroduce that into the salon.

Then, you know, if you're not, if you're, if it's not part of your plan, you know, and you, you're bringing it on and actually you're making everything way more complicated.

If you decided to do it and drop something else or reorganize your business so that someone else could be, you know, facilitating that thing, then, you know, you're, you're in a whole new scenario. But yeah, letting go is so important. And I think if, if I could just say this.

I, I do think one of the things I've seen, you know, I, I'm not in the salon industry. However, I've been a customer of, of many salons for, for many years.

And the, the thing I have seen time and time again is when you have developed a skill as a technician and you're really, really good at it and you make that move to maybe, okay, I'm going to run my own business now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have that salon, I'm gonna fulfill that dream.

The transition that is needed is for, is mentally going from an excellent hands on technician to I need to start thinking like a business person now as well.

Sue Davies: 00:12:14

It's a very different.

Sara Burton: 00:12:15

And that identity, the shift that's needed, it's not about confidence, it's not about just doing it. It's actually being able to understand who am I, who have I, what's got me to this point here and what's now going to take me to the next part.

And the biggest bit about that is the identity that we step into.

Because when you take on that new identity, you will find you are able to see all the great bits of you so far that need to be amplified and all the areas where you need to learn new skills and so on. And clarity is what gives us confidence.

You know, when you, when you have that clarity over what you need to do or what you need to think about and what you need to get clear on in your head, oh my goodness, that's where you can really take off is.

Sue Davies: 00:13:06

And I think what you're saying there is really, really important because we do. A friend of mine uses the term accidental salon and accidental business owner.

And our industry is filled with people that are accidental business owners because they have been the hairstylist, they have been the beauty therapist, they have been a massage therapist and then they get that opportunity to open a salon or a clinic or have their own business. Like if it's a home business, you know, they have the opportunity to become a business owner.

Sara Burton: 00:13:35

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:13:35

And, and if, especially if you're on a commercial premises with leases attached and all of the legalities and the responsibility that goes with that. It can be so overwhelming to go from actually, you know, on, you know, last Friday I was doing, you know, Mrs.

Jones's nails and then suddenly the following week you're actually in charge of finance, health and safety, fire regulations, you know, the accounting.

There's just, there's so much that you're suddenly respons that you can feel like you're swimming in a sea of sharks because you just don't understand enough about it.

We've got a big issue like in our foundation education we don't really get taught much about business because education hasn't quite caught up with where we are now. And everyone who is an entrepreneur wants to be a business owner. That seems to be where we're at now.

We've gone from a 35, I think it was 30, 35% business owner numbers before COVID and now we're at 67 business owners and self employed. So we've had this massive switch and education hasn't caught up.

So all these people are coming out of their foundation education and suddenly they're going to be a business owner and they have got no idea how to do it. So our forums, people that are drowning in a lack of information really, it's a really.

Or suffocating really it's probably more of it but it's, it's a very difficult thing and for them to have that new identity is, you know, and not like this year I'm trying to, I'm. I'm having a new identity. All the stuff that I've done previously is suddenly gone.

And weirdly I've actually come back to doing what my comfort zone thing is, which is women's well being and doing like doing therapies again. And I've now reopened my home salon because it's my, it's my Comfort zone.

And so I've, I'm kind of going through this like, weird transition again, you know. You know, like just keep going through.

Sara Burton: 00:15:23

Oh my gosh, we go through so many and I think let's start seeing them exciting, you know, like, I don't, I'm, I'm very much a person.

And, and the clients that I work with as well, I'm attracting more and more of, of this kind of client is that embracing change as it's a place for new opportunities.

And when you start to see things like that, you know, if you're coming into your business and there's, and, you know, you're faced with these challenges and you see them as opportunities to learn new skills, to, you know, really let your business fly, then, oh, my goodness, isn't that, isn't that such a better place? I, I think, I think one of the things that I'd like to get across here as well is that it's very difficult for us to have quite a few identities.

And what I mean by that is like, I'm a mum, I'm an aunt, I'm a businesswoman, I'm a speaker, I'm, I'm. You know, when you actually start to write down all the roles that you have in your life, it's immense.

And this is why, when I, when I coach people in business now, the, it is about the whole person. Because if you kind of think that things that are going on in your personal life don't seep into your business life, then I'm afraid you're mistaken.

And, and you only have to sort of look at someone like Richard Branson. You know, he was groundbreaking.

When you think about it, when, you know, he used to be interviewed, he's this multimillionaire and he had a jumper on because back then that was not how you were seen. If you were a multimillionaire, you would be suited and booted. And he was sort of the first to sort of really.

Yeah, but this is who I am, you know, listen to who I want to be. And I think that's, that's really good.

So if you've had something that has knocked your confidence, for example, and let's talk about unshakable confidence in a second.

But, and what that actually is, if you've had something that's knocked your confidence in your personal life, you might very well put the mask on and go into work and smile and do all of those things. But your energy, you know, your, your aura and that, that's about as woo woo. As I'm going to get right now. But, like, you know how you come across.

People pick up on it.

Sue Davies: 00:17:57

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:17:58

And that works the other way as well. If you are truly being yourself, you will attract the right people who will love that of you. They'll be attracted to it.

Sue Davies: 00:18:12

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:18:12

And. And I think I see things, you know, time and time again when you.

When you think about, like, I live near Litchfield, there are millions of hairdressers there. It's all about coffee shops and hairdressers. Right. That seems to be the thing. That's.

Sue Davies: 00:18:26

That's the thing. Yeah.

We've been talking about this some other episodes, and that's just like every village, every local town now it's hairdressers, delis and cafes and that's it.

Sara Burton: 00:18:35

So in many ways, you can look at this two ways. You could look at this and go, well, I can't open anything there because it's. It's, you know, it's saturated.

Or for me, if I wanted to do it, I'd think, oh, my gosh, there's a massive market there already. Do you know what I mean? It's proven there by the number of salons. I'm going to offer something different. And that thing that is different is you.

That is the one thing that differentiates anyone who's got a salon. It's that person.

And so if you have that belief in yourself and understanding, it's not that you're going to air all your dirty laundry, do you know what I mean? But it is that you allow yourself to inject who you are into your business.

So, you know, there's before and after pictures that, you know, people put on there. I'd like to see a little bit more about what's going on in the salon as well.

Sue Davies: 00:19:32

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:19:32

Do you know what I mean? Because there's an assignment, there's an assumption that you're good at what you do because you have a salon.

But the things that differentiate you, it might be. I'd love to see things. I haven't seen this.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but if I was working with a salon owner, this is the kind of thing I'd be trying to tease out of them, is things like, if your customers love you, they'll be prepared to go on social media and a testimonial from a client about how they feel after having had their hair done, rather than, you know, just what it looks like to me. That's really powerful.

Sue Davies: 00:20:10

Yeah, it is, definitely. And I think as well, one of the things when I had, when I had my salon, I saw a phrase I use so often nowadays.

But when I did have my salon and I, I would periodically, usually if we were going to be doing awards and whether I needed testimonials for the awards or not, I would ask my clients to write down why they came to me. Yeah, and we, and we would use it for marketing and stuff.

And I think it's a really valuable thing because, yeah, you know, we get with hair, it's all of those, like the backdrops of the hair and the curls and the balayage with nails, it's all of like, you know, the wonderful nail art or whatever.

And with facials, it's, you know, it's currently, at the moment, for some reason there's this whole thing about having the glow, which is like, not what skin's supposed to do, but hey, ho. But it's a social media thing. So like, you know, all the photos now, facials are about getting the glow.

And, and so you just see those images time and time again. And in actual fact, what you want to hear is, how did that, you know, we, we as an industry increase people's confidence.

We make people feel happy, we make people feel more comfortable.

We were talking about the way that social media kind of represents what we do in the salon and what our skill set looks like in when the, when the job's done. But it is that, that kind of thing, that heartfelt warmth that we give clients is what we miss out on.

And I think using that as marketing would probably serve us a lot better, wouldn't it? And I think it kind of humanizes us.

Sara Burton: 00:21:33

I think it humanizes you, but also it makes you so much more magnetic to the clients that you want to get.

So say, for example, you are a nail technician and you actually want those, you get people who come in for special occasions, but actually you want people to come in every three weeks. Do you know what I mean? For, for impulse and, and to be with you for years, you know, because that, that gives you a really good client base.

And, and certainly from, you know, my perspective, I know that if I find. And now I'll take. I'm just gonna. I get my nails done. You know, it's.

When you find a place, it's so much easier to keep going back to the place that you love rather than, okay, I wasn't happy there. So it's a combination, isn't it?

Obviously you've got to be offering a very good quality service and product, but also that Extra sprinkling of, of having a chat with you, showing interest in you. You know. Now that might not be for everyone, but for me nails are a non negotiable. I'm on video quite a lot.

I speak in front of people and for me I'm quite animated. So for me to have my nails done, it's a non negotiable.

So if I were to do, you know, a testimonial, for example, or if I was ever asked, rather than just showing my nails, you know, this is the design that Sarah had.

If I were to say, you know, I come here every time, you know, every time because I'm a businesswoman and I use my hands a lot, you know, I, I want, it's part of my confidence that if you shake someone's hand, I want my hand to, to look and feel good the same way that everything about me is. Do you know what I mean?

Sue Davies: 00:23:37

It's part of, part of your identity. Yeah. But I think, you know, when we're talking about like you're right, like when we have to step into an identity, you know, we're helping our cl.

Into their identity through doing what we 100%.

Sara Burton: 00:23:48

Yeah. So for the owner to step into their identity that matches the clients that they want to attract.

Sue Davies: 00:23:55

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:23:56

You know, it's so, it's so easy, it's so simple.

But again, it's not something that we necessarily think about because I'm pretty sure salon owners are, are hit with, you know, you need this particular brand or it's, it's, this is the latest trend.

Sue Davies: 00:24:10

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:24:11

Rather than actually pulling it back to being a human being with a business who wants to do a great job for their clients and get clear about who they actually want to be attracting. And I don't think it is, they need to be between 35 and 45. They need to, you know, I don't believe in that anymore.

I think your ideal clients are the ones that are attracted to you when you are being the very best version of you in your business.

Sue Davies: 00:24:37

Yeah. And I think.

Sara Burton: 00:24:38

Simple as that.

Sue Davies: 00:24:40

Yeah.

I think as well though, I mean that whole thing around identity is that, you know, maybe we need to actually take, I don't know what the word is like responsibility for the fact that we, we do help people manifest the identity they, they want to be. And so like we're like, you know, every high street's full of like identity boosting little stop offs, isn't it?

And, and just giving that person the clarity that, you know, I mean my hair now Constantly short. The moment I keep thinking, should I regrow it or not?

And I know like when I first met you, you had quite short hair and then, but it becomes part of your identity, doesn't it? And it's like at the moment everybody knows me as having like, you know, sue with really, really short hair.

And everyone's always like, God, your hair is really short. It's like, well, it's just, I like it like this. It's like, yeah, either this or curls. And this is so much easier to manage.

But it becomes part of who you are. And the same thing you say with your nails. You know, I know in all the time I've known you, you generally have red toned nails always.

And it's part of who you are.

And I think, you know, when, as, as professionals in the industry we are, you know, we're making people's skin look beautiful and luminous and that, you know, if you're, if your facial skin is telling a story of, of, you know, of natural beauty, that's going to make you feel more confident. If your hair is, you know, a color that you love and is in a cut that you love, it's going to make you feel more confident and more who you are.

Sara Burton: 00:26:07

I come from a sale, a business, sales marketing background and, and thank goodness, you know, going to uni and doing business studies was one of the best things I ever did. And I just had no idea how much I was going to use at the time. But here's the thing.

When you show the end product, it's sort of like that's the, that's the feature, you know what I mean? So you have this thing called feature advantage benefit. It's a very basic sort of sales structure.

So what you're showing it, the feature is like, okay, so this is, this is what you get, right? This is, this is the end. Yeah. But if you then go, the advantage of that, you know, so let's take Sara. Sarah's had her nails done great.

This is what they look like. Fabulous. The advantage to Sara is that she now has, you know, fresh nails again and she's going to boost her confidence in a, in a little tiny way.

Her identity has been fulfilled once more. Yeah.

And the benefit of that is when I am talking to clients, when I am speaking at an event, that confidence comes through and so I get a better result. I attract more clients, I have people's attention more because I'm able to hold that space.

And there's, there's an element to this that I think isn't that more powerful? Because there'll be somebody on social media in the other way who maybe has never had their nails done before. Maybe they have got an event coming up.

That's not a wedding. That tends to be, that's what I see in the salons when I'm there.

It tends to be like holidays, you know, weddings, special occasions and things like that. But for me, every day needs to be like that because I'm a business owner and I am who I am and, and it adds to that.

So someone else could be thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm going to a local networking meeting and I'm going to be doing a talk for the first time. And actually, to have their nails done is going to contribute to part of their brand, who they are, what they stand for.

It's about, you know, showing. For me, it's, it's, it's a standard for me. It's a reflection of what I believe I. I want for myself. Yeah.

And then somebody can tap into that and all of a sudden they're running into the, the salon to get their nails done.

Sue Davies: 00:28:40

It's that story behind it, isn't it? I think.

Sara Burton: 00:28:43

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:28:44

Is that we. Quite often, you know, there's a whole thing in marketing, isn't there, about, you know, storytelling.

Sara Burton: 00:28:48

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:28:49

And, and I think that quite often people have a misconception that the story has to be about you and your journey as, you know, as the salon kind of thing. But tell your clients stories, you know, oh, they're. Yeah. Why did people come to you?

And maybe, you know, I mean, I did when I used to send out for these testimonials, I used to just send out, we. We'd have a form on the counter and just say to people as they were paying, look, you know, you've been with us for years. What is it about us?

Why do you come to us? What is it you get out of being with us?

And I think if, and if you, if you ask your clients those questions and you give them, you know, a free open piece of paper or, you know, piece on a form online, if you give them like a space to write, some of them might just say, because I really like it, because it's that basic for them. Yeah. There's like Sara are going to say, actually, no, this, this helps me build my business.

It helps me be the most powerful person that I can be, and it helps me develop myself. And all of those things like you've just said.

And actually, it's really interesting having guests on that aren't from the industry because you, you get that, that different perception of how we're, you know, how we're seen, how our services are seen. Don't always ask those questions of our clients.

Sara Burton: 00:29:57

Yeah. I mean, just putting my business hat on for a second, you know, because.

Sue Davies: 00:30:01

We'Re not supposed to be talking about this, but.

Sara Burton: 00:30:03

Well, it's all, it is all. You know, I, I want to come on here and add value. You know, clearly that's, and hopefully we're doing that today.

But the, the thing is with like getting words from your clients effectively writes your copy.

Sue Davies: 00:30:19

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:30:20

For your social media, for your marketing. You know, if you take 10 of your best clients and they all use a particular word, use it because that will attract more of those kind of clients.

You know, and, and when I was a photographer, which obviously isn't salon based, but I did this very much. You know why? And it was the, it was the reasons behind why they wanted family portraits, for example.

You know, what were those occasions why I asked, you know, that my clients had spent the biggest amount of money. All of them went for a statement piece. That was what I used to call a statement piece, which would be like a big portrait.

Sue Davies: 00:31:06

Family portrait style.

Sara Burton: 00:31:08

Yeah. You know, and kind of. And, and when I looked into this, it was kind of. It helps people feel good about the family that they're in.

It helps people with their own identity within a family to see. Yes, I'm a part of that thing and it's very subconscious.

But it wasn't until people told me that every time they go past it, it really makes them smile. Why does it make you smile? Yeah. And doing that level of research allowed me then to put that in my sales story, you know, my marketing.

Because it was sort of like, you know, this, this marks an occasion. This marks a time in that family's life. So it's the same principle.

Ask them what it is they like, ask them how they feel afterwards, you know, all those things. And that really helps you understand who you want more of. Not with the clients that you don't like.

Concentrate on the ones that spend the money that you love working with.

Sue Davies: 00:32:03

Absolutely.

Sara Burton: 00:32:04

And research them. So this is where the concept of starting over comes from. The starting over isn't closing down your salon and doing something else.

It is starting over from where you are now, but looking at things from a different approach. And the work that I really love to do with, with people in, in business. Well. And in life as well.

But when you break down what feels in alignment, where are you right now, as a person, what is important to you, what is fun for you? All of those things.

And then you can look at how you can actually inject that, you know, put all of those things into your business in the most appropriate way that allows you then to work effortlessly.

That doesn't mean not, you know, you don't have to stop working altogether, but it's like things become effortless and to be able to attract clients rather than chase them down is a game changer. It really is.

And every time I see it, every time you come across somebody who is magnetic in whatever industry it is, or even if it's a chat that they've had in a salon and they really loved who it was, do you know what I mean? And they felt that connection, they are way more likely to forever choose that person over any other salon.

Sue Davies: 00:33:28

Yeah. Because any other salon, that connection is so vital in what we do, you know, and we, we are the phrase that we.

I was talking about someone the other day, and we are the keepers of secrets and we are the keepers of people's deepest hurts and most exciting futures that they can't share somewhere else.

You know, especially as beauty therapists, we will most often be one of the first people to find out someone's going to be having a baby because they may need to tell us because it could stop them having a treatment.

Sara Burton: 00:33:59

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:33:59

So we quite often are, you know, we're, we're in their lives and it's a, it's a, it's a, a really honored position to be in, a very privileged position to be in because they do, they share some stuff with you that you, that, you know, you have to take to your grave with you. You can't ever, you've got nowhere to ever go with this.

But one of the things I wanted to kind of touch on with you is like the relationships and the networks that are there to support us. Yeah. How do you sort of, how do you think that those networks and support elements can kind of help somebody that's in business?

Sara Burton: 00:34:35

One of the, the biggest things that I really learned very quickly when I had my first business, which, oh my gosh, I'm going with back a very long time ago was I didn't have lots of people around me who understood what I wanted to be doing. I left, you know, a career in publishing. I, I, I was publisher of magazines. I'd launched magazines in the Middle east and in London.

You know, my biggest team was 60 people and, and I wanted to leave it all and become a photographer and, and Nobody understood because on paper, like, why would you leave a successful career to go and do something like this? But you're going to have to start off, judge me. But for.

So what helped me massively was to find online where are the networks of photographers who are starting up their businesses.

Sue Davies: 00:35:41

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:35:42

And, and for me, it was a game changer because all of a sudden there were people like, oh, my God, I totally understand, right?

And so as human beings, we are, you know, what keeps us safe is community, you know, And I think in today's world, you know, back then, in the caveman days, it was literally you're, you, you, you hunted as a team, you looked after, you know, the others as a team, you know, all that kind of thing. And if you were cast out, you are in danger because you can't protect yourself and sleep at the same time and all this kind of stuff.

In today's world, we are so much more. And so if we can tap into the different communities that support us in the way we need, then as a whole person, we're there.

Now we've all got friends, right? And I, and I now have my, what I call my big five, you know, and my big five are my, my most trusted, you know, my most trusted community.

But I also have people who understand what I'm doing from a coaching perspective. I'm in a coaching community. I also have people who understand me from a fitness perspective. Do you know what I mean?

And they're very different people. But when we go somewhere where people understand us and what we're trying to do, it elevates you.

It gives you again, that, that identity, that part of you is like, yes, I'm part of this crowd.

And when you see other people doing things that you want to be doing or overcoming fears that you want to overcome, then it just gives you that, that validation, that permission to go ahead and do it. If you have people around you who are saying, why are you doing this?

You're much better off sticking with a big salon who's going to pay you on a regular basis.

And you can have holiday if that's slowly killing you inside, you know, because you've got this, this thing that you want to be doing, then you need to find other people who are doing it. And I'll say this, I'll say most people who are successful in their business will be supportive.

And, you know, you, you might find that you can reach out to somebody locally or come to someone like you, sue, obviously, who's got a community. Do you know what I Mean, and most people will. They'll be supportive of it.

Sue Davies: 00:38:09

I think in. We have. I think because of the nature of it, there's. So there's something out.

Especially now, there's so many businesses, it can feel very competitive. I know there's. There's a huge movement of us in and the industry that are trying very hard to make it. Collaboration over competition.

Sara Burton: 00:38:25

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:38:26

And that, you know, and this whole thing of lit like that I've been trying to kind of live by for the last year or so of like, leave the ladder down because, you know, I have. I have reached lovely places in my industry and doing the things that I love doing.

And if I now can go back and actually help those people, you know, the ones that are further down the ladder that I can give them a hand up, then I'm going to do that. Because it isn't about, you know, they're not, they're not competition to me.

Sara Burton: 00:38:51

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:38:52

Because they're, they're, you know, they're on a different journey, on different pathway.

But, you know, it might be that I have a piece of knowledge that can help them take three steps forward instead of like sliding back down, like the state kind of thing, isn't it? It's a very, very easy thing to do, to help somebody and support them. Yeah, it's. It's. I don't know.

I mean, I don't like it if someone asked me for help and I. And I turn away from them. I think. I don't think I'd sleep well at night.

Sara Burton: 00:39:16

Yeah, I think it's. I don't. I don't mean they'll sit you down and give you hours and hours of their time, but they might point you in the right direction.

My 53 years that I've been walking around on this planet, one of the things. And doing the work that I do now, one of the things I have come to realize is this.

There are people in business who will always look externally for how to build their business. Right. And sometimes they're like, oh, they're doing that, so I'm gonna do it. They might copy. They might, like, you know, steal branding colors or.

Or all sorts of things. They're looking for something on the outside. If they are people who are complaining, who are blaming. They're not your people.

They are not the people that I'm talking about who will say, yes, you can do this. And you know what? Maybe look at this person or that community or. So that's the kind of person I'm talking about.

The people who are sure of who they are, the ones that are running their own race, not worrying about everybody else. And I, I definitely can speak from experience here with my photography business.

I was surrounded by other photographers, other, other studios and it was driving me insane. I was constantly looking, what were they doing, you know, how was it working? And I thought to myself, I don't want to be like any of these.

I want to do what I want to do. I want to create as a studio where I used to do maternity and babies and so on in the studio.

I want to create an environment where those mums can sit down and feed their baby and we can just break the, the photo shoot because that's more important right now. Because those were my values. I wanted my mums to feel that they would come.

So I charged more, we had longer appointments, but we got great pictures and relationships and so on. And so they would then recommend to all of their friends. It's that kind of thing.

I used to get other photographers come in and sit and this is actually how I got into coaching. Sue, great segue here. But I used to have other photographers come into my studio, sit on my, on my couch and say, how are you doing this?

You know, and, and I would say, I'm doing what I want to do, you know, and, and I would start to tell them. And then after a while I thought, I'm going to start charging for this, you know, because actually this is, this is really good stuff.

And so I started coaching other photographers and then that turned into other business owners and, and now I've sort of evolved to where, to where I am now.

But throughout the business thing, it's not the blueprints, it's not the strategies behind, you know, you can be told how to build a successful salon, but if you don't believe that you can do it or if you're not in aligned with those methods that are, you are shown. Do you know what I mean? It's not going to work. It has to come from within.

And I think we live in a world now where you can do so much more for your business, so much quicker, for so much less money, you know, than ever before.

Sue Davies: 00:42:35

I know we were talking inside and we were talking, weren't we, about the benefits of AI and how we both use it and, and I think, you know, for business owners, I think, and especially where we do have a large number of neurodivergent odors in the, and therapies or hairdressers, there's a huge number of them in the industry, we're creative industry.

And consequently that means that there's likely to be a higher percentage of us that are neurodivergent and, and you know, using things like AI and some of the, the resources that are available now to kind of, just to kind of short circuit all of that, that thinking time and all of that reflection, you know, you can say I for some amazing things, can't you? And we would just sort of sound, weren't we, about the benefits of, of.

Sara Burton: 00:43:20

Definitely use that 100. But this illustrates, this illustrates beautifully what I'm kind of getting. I, I hope I'm being clearer about, but AI is a tool.

Social media is a tool.

Sue Davies: 00:43:37

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:43:38

Unless you know what you actually want to do with that tool, it's not going to work. So this is the thing, you know, you have to put into AI. And I was afraid of it.

Start off, I have to admit I had massive resistance to it, which is why I leaned into it. Because anything that, that triggers me, I then go, why is that triggering me? Right. And that tells me something about myself.

And then I looked into it. But it takes practice, doesn't it? You have to keep putting the prompts in. You have to learn what it is.

And then you sort of experiment, trial and error, you know, you give it a go. And then, you know, that's one of my sayings is you have to know what to put into it to get the best out of it.

And that needs that thinking time, that needs you to understand what it is you want to achieve with it. Because when you're clear on that, then you're clear on the questions that you need to ask.

Sue Davies: 00:44:34

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:44:34

And that goes with anything within business.

Sue Davies: 00:44:37

Yeah, absolutely.

So one of the other things I wanted to kind of come bringing back to your Start over and Rise Soar program was I was part of something when you were, when you were first kind of dipping your toe in this area, wasn't I was on a beta program with you. Yeah. And I kind of wanted to talk about that because I know this whole thing of like getting stuck and letting go of things that aren't serving you.

And when we went, when we went through that process and that, that early Tuesday morning call back in January last year, 7:00. Yeah, I know that was really early. I missed the first couple because I'm not good at.

But, but it was going through that process of talking this through and, and that reflection and I can't even remember, I have no idea what the question was that you kind of posed us that Morning. But I know as I sat listening to the other contributors on that call, I had literally had an aha moment. And I think it isn't. It's whether.

Whether or not you take that time out on your own, whether you take that time out with someone like Sara and you invest in a program that's going to help you and encourage you and push you to look at these things and to do that reflection and review. And it wasn't. I was so glad that I had the opportunity to be part of that, because I did that that morning.

I literally woke up like, you know, I sat in that meeting. I think there'd been quite a lot of tears that morning, hadn't there? Yeah. Rightly, I think it was a great session.

I think you might have been the only one that didn't cry.

Sara Burton: 00:46:13

I was ecstatic. I know that sounds awful, but yeah, the tears come, the breakthroughs are happening.

Sue Davies: 00:46:19

Yes. And it wasn't. And I think, like, for me, that morning I. I had that moment of like. And there was something somebody said and it was.

And this word, like waiting just came into my.

Sara Burton: 00:46:31

I think that was the question.

Sue Davies: 00:46:33

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:46:33

What are you waiting for?

Sue Davies: 00:46:34

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:46:35

And you had this like a beam of.

Sue Davies: 00:46:38

It was like an epiphany. Yeah. And I did. And I realized. And I don't know if I sat while.

I think I might have sat while we were doing it, writing down the things I was waiting to happen. And all of them were out of my control. Yeah. It was just. And it. And I think that some of them were in my control ultimately.

But nearly everything I was waiting for was other people to do what they were supposed to be doing.

Sara Burton: 00:47:03

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:47:04

That was off to give me an answer on something and to agree to do it so that I could move on. And I realized that I just was in this place of being stuck. And I think so often we end up in that place. And I think.

And I don't know if it's more as women, because just sort of like, socially, historically, we've always had to be given permission to. Whether there's an element of that that sits with it. But we do kind. I.

I know there was, you know, work things, there was personal things, family things that I was just sat in this place of. Of waiting. And that day I decided I'm done with waiting.

Sara Burton: 00:47:37

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:47:37

And. And as you know, I went off and booked, like. But I think by about 1:00 that afternoon, I'd booked my.

And had confirmed my place on my trip to Costa Rica to go to the Curl, the Turtle project that I've been wanting to go to for years, I just made that decision. I think sometimes it's just. It is literally giving yourself permission.

Sara Burton: 00:47:55

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:47:56

Say enough.

Sara Burton: 00:47:58

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:47:58

And I need to just. I need to move on now. Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:48:02

And that is. It's such a great. I loved.

It was so, so privileged to see that happen for you, because in a way, the first thing you did was something for your personal. Something you'd wanted to do for such a long time. It wasn't connected to your business.

Sue Davies: 00:48:19

No.

Sara Burton: 00:48:20

Oh, my goodness. Didn't that then filter? You know, it transcended and flowed into, well, so much of your life. But do you know what I mean?

Like your business and so on. And that's how quickly. That's how quickly when you. You do this work, something can just suddenly change and it comes through a process.

So somebody could have said to you ages ago, what are you waiting for? And you say, well, you know what? I'm waiting for this and this and this and this and this. Right. But on that day, what are you waiting for?

And it wasn't. So what are you waiting for? You know, it wasn't done like that, but it was kind of what. What's whole, you know, what is actually happening.

Sue Davies: 00:49:04

I think probably as well, it's much more, why are you waiting?

Sara Burton: 00:49:07

Yeah, exactly. And that was like, yeah, what am I waiting for?

Sue Davies: 00:49:11

What.

Sara Burton: 00:49:12

Why is this something that I'm doing?

And a lot of the time, particularly as women, and I love that you brought that up, because I think we especially as we get older as well, we're the center of everything.

You know, when you're younger and you've got kids, and if you're running a salon and you've got kids, you've got child care, you've got all sorts of things going on. And what happens is we start to lose. We start to compromise on lots of things about who we. Who our core is.

Now, some of those compromises you do willingly and lovingly, you know, like the things we do for our children and things like that.

But if you don't keep hold of some of who you are as well, and if you put everyone else first and you are constantly not even on the list, let alone at the bottom of the list, then this is where conditioning starts to happen, and this is where we get to a place of indecision, because the decision isn't like, in your case, it wasn't necessarily, I'd like to do this, therefore I'll just book it. How am I going to Pay for it. Brilliant. Off I go. Right. The decision was clouded by, well, what will happen to my business while away?

How will my husband cope?

Sue Davies: 00:50:26

What.

Sara Burton: 00:50:26

You know, it's all you're thinking about, all the other things.

And some of those things are societal, some of those where you might be questioning, you might have a subconscious feeling of, like, who am I to bugger off and go and look after turtles? What are people gonna think?

Sue Davies: 00:50:44

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:50:44

And these aren't necessarily conscious things. And so the work that I do with the starting over is. We're starting over with, let's get really aware of what's going on with you right now. And.

And then you're able to. To literally have moments like you did where, like, hang on a minute, I don't have to be like this. It doesn't have to be done like that.

And that's when everything opens up and it is so, so liberating.

Sue Davies: 00:51:11

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:51:12

And it can change in an instant, can't it?

Sue Davies: 00:51:14

Yeah. And I think as well, it's sort of like, it's a.

It's like a magical gift when you have that moment of, like, that, like, you say that that thing of like, we're just sort of. We're sat and we are compromising and it is, you know, and every compromise I've made for my family has been worth it. It isn't.

You know, there's never a point where I've got, oh, you know, I wish I'd never had my children because then I'd be doing whatever. It isn't, isn't that, is it? But I think it is that, you know, you know, when you have kids, you have a partner, they. You do, you.

You do allow yourself to have less so they can have more. And it's something that you do as a mum and as a wife and as a partner, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever you are to whoever you.

You put their values in front of yours sometimes, and other. And other times they'll put yours in front of theirs and you get something, you know, and you get the advantage kind of thing.

But I do think that, you know, when I made that decision, because I had, I had the money in the bank rating, I had. I'd had a.

An insurance claim that had paid out and the money had been sat there for a year and, And I hadn't done it, and I was just waiting for response on something as to why I wasn't doing it. And, and when I actually got out there, I mean, that.

That doing that trip was in some ways the most amazing thing in Other ways, the scariest thing in other ways, the most liberating thing. And I think that it changed my perspective on my abilities. It changed my perspective on how confident I should be, how confident I could be.

You know, traveling solo to that far away was a major, major thing for me. And I know, and I know she. Because she's just got back, actually. I.

I know I inspired many people in many ways, but somebody I know, actually, I think maybe even by the time I got back, because I was doing daily videos and whatever on Facebook and she booked and she's just been to Africa this year and been like an amazing, like, game, sort of like wildlife thing out in Africa. And. And I think, you know, when it's those little seeds that kind of push out to other people as well, isn't it?

Yeah, that whole thing of, like, how you inspire other people to be present and to be the best version of themselves.

Sara Burton: 00:53:20

All of these things, you know that there's. I. I mentioned this because there's a metaphorical belt that you can put around yourself, right? I can take you through this belt. Sounds B, E, L, T.

Belief, emotion, love and trust. Okay? These are four words that I think contribute to unshakable confidence. And unshakable confidence is that thing where. Let's put it into context.

You're running your salon, right? And you're doing it confidently and everything's great and everybody is happy. And then you get one customer.

Customer, you get one customer who maybe has said an untruth or maybe has been unhappy or maybe what they asked for and what you gave them, they decide is not what they wanted and they blame you, right? That one thing, if you take that on board and you allow it to, and you ruminate on it, what could I have done differently?

And all of these things, it can knock you out for days, Right? Do you know what I mean? You can find that, like, three days later, you think, actually, I really haven't had my head in the game.

I, you know, and it's knocked a little bit of your confidence and so on. Unshakable confidence is when that can happen.

And you can, because you believe in yourself, you're able to take the emotion, the initial emotion that you might be feeling sort of like, out of it.

You have enough love for yourself and what you do, which is really, really important, and you trust in yourself that you will know the right thing to do next and that you trust that you. You did the right thing at the previous time. It allows you to take yourself out of that downward Spiral. Because that could. That could affect.

You could go home, you might shout at your kids. You know, you might shout your husband or your. Or your partner. George. Mean. And it can really take you into a downward spiral.

Unshakable confidence is when you can see it for what it is. You're aware of what's going on. Why am I so hurt by this? Because I care about my business.

I want all my clients to have a great experience, so that's a good thing. Whereas if you go into a place where you're like, oh my gosh, that one, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not cut out for this.

Despite all the other clients that have left. Very happy. If you're in that space where you're looking for the negative, George Mean you.

Because it's backing up a belief that you have about yourself.

Sue Davies: 00:55:54

Absolutely.

And I think we take it so personally as well, I think, because, you know, I think more so as we've become a bigger industry of solopreneurs, because that's what we're becoming. There's, you know, so many businesses that are closing and people going to work from home and go mobile because it.

It feels like it's an easier route, but it means you're on your own. And then it becomes even more personal because, you know, if you're in a team of people in a salon, there's like five or six of you.

You can kind of share that load of like, you know, we. We can all take a bit of responsibility for it or they there to support you if you've had a bad day.

But when you're at home and you're on your own and something goes wrong or someone isn't happy, there's only you to blame. And I think that it's very difficult to not take it personally because.

Sara Burton: 00:56:38

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:56:38

You're being criticized, aren't you? Is you that's being criticized?

Sara Burton: 00:56:41

Yes. But you're not.

Sue Davies: 00:56:43

It's hard to separate it.

Sara Burton: 00:56:45

It is, but it's totally possible. Yeah, that's it. And that's why I want to get across it. It is hard to start with because it's uncomfortable.

You have to face uncomfortable things about what you might believe about yourself, you know, but when you face those things, you know, where does that feeling of I'm not good enough come from? Right. So if you do that bit of work and you're able to go, but that's not true. I am good enough.

I do provide, you know, and actually what this was about was something else. It's so much easier. That's unshakable confidence. It's not arrogance.

Sue Davies: 00:57:19

Right.

Sara Burton: 00:57:20

It is a real understanding of who you are, what's important, what's matters.

Sue Davies: 00:57:25

Yeah. And I think as well, when you have that confidence, you're able to communicate more clearly to your clients that actually, you know, there's.

There's clearly a mismatch here. And that. Because basically, that's what it is. There's a mismatch.

They thought they were getting X, you've provided Y, and you've had a misunderstanding.

Sara Burton: 00:57:42

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:57:42

And if you're in a place of.

Sara Burton: 00:57:44

Calm, you know, if you're able to. Or even say to them, you know, okay, take care. You know, let me have a think about what we do next. You know, give yourself that space.

Let them feel heard. And if you're able to keep yourself not in a place of, like.

Because some people can get really angry, you know, you can trigger them, and then they're really angry. How dare you. Or, you know. Or that's what they're feeling inside. Or they feel very negative towards that person.

Whereas if you've done this kind of work, if you have the unshakable composite, you're able to take yourself into a place of calm.

And what happens is, when we're in a place of calm, when we're at peace, when we're accepting of what is going on and we take that negative emotion out of it, you're able to think straight. You're able then to make better decisions. And that is where, as far as I'm concerned, that's a place of almost euphoria because that's.

That's when you kind of go. It's like living in the Matrix. And you can see all the stuff.

Sue Davies: 00:58:45

Yeah. You're like, I can see all the numbers are flowing.

Sara Burton: 00:58:47

Yeah. And because the fog isn't there, you know, and. And the panic isn't there, and that's what happens.

Our bodies, when we go into a state of panic, we release all these toxins and it's effectively poisoning us.

Sue Davies: 00:59:00

Yeah.

Sara Burton: 00:59:00

That is effectively what it's doing. And so it. Your brain doesn't work, your breathing isn't right, and there are so many things you can do.

Like, if you've just got a, you know, a situation like that, just take yourself to the loo, take some deep breaths, have a moment, you know, and then come back to the situation. It's.

Sue Davies: 00:59:18

It's.

Sara Burton: 00:59:18

It's incredible. It really is. So. So, yeah, the starting over is. Is kind of. This is all part of it, you're not starting over from scratch.

You're starting over from where you are and you're uncovering the things that are, that are holding you back, that are causing you frustration. And it's so lovely to be able to step forward from, from that place.

Sue Davies: 00:59:41

Yeah. And I think as well, is it really. You know, I was just.

As you're saying, I'm just sort of thinking we're very privileged as humans that we get to kind of start over every day, don't we? And every, every day is a new opportunity. And every day, you know, you can say, actually that is not serving me.

I'm not going to have that as part of my life anymore. And I think that is the hardest thing sometimes.

Like, you know, we had conversation back in the earlier part of the year and I had to make some big changes and that was so hard because it was something I was so passionate about and I'd been committed to for six years. But sometimes you just have to realize that it, it's not working. And for whatever reason it is, and I'm not, I will not be going into that.

But there's, but there's a whole lot of reasons why I had to make the decision I had to make. And it was the hardest thing and it took. But I literally took myself out for two weeks to make the final decision of what I was going to do.

Actually probably long about three weeks.

And I soul searched and worked through every possible scenario of trying to work out what was the pathway forward that was going to be best for me and not anybody else. But it's going to. What was going to be best for me and make me calm and make me happier, make me feel more fulfilled.

And then I had, and then I had to sort of like deliver the death blow kind of thing. And it was painful and it was hard. And I probably spent most of this year grieving that whole situation because it was a big part of my life.

And that's okay.

Sara Burton: 01:01:08

That's part of letting go. Yeah, that is. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:01:12

And, and now, you know, it's like now I can transition, you know, with freedom and with more joy in my life and everything else.

So many more positives that I can move forward with, you know, and having people like yourself around me and like, you know, the other people that are going to be guesting on the show over the next sort of like few months.

You know, I'm so, I feel so privileged to all these wonderful people around me who are there as like a, a network of people that I can Go to and say, look, you know, there's this. Now. Now what?

Sara Burton: 01:01:43

Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and, and these are the things, you know, we talked earlier about the network that is, that is where.

That's a great example of how, you know, who can I go to? Who's going to understand this right now? You know, where can I get that help? Yeah, I do. I do think that the letting go thing really is. Is important.

But a lot of the time we don't start in that place. We start where something feels like it's missing or it's a frustration or you feel foggy or you're indecisive. And those are all the clues.

Those are actually the clues of, okay, so I need to.

Sue Davies: 01:02:21

And I think from this place. Yeah. For me, one of the things that resonated with me when I'm.

When I started making the changes earlier this year was a quote from Stephen Bartlett that was like when, when your gut says, no, trust it. Take out. And. Yeah, trust your gut, basically, and unpack it later. And that was kind of what I had to do.

And I spent three weeks like, going, is my gut really right? And then making the decision. And it's. And I've been unpacking it for months. Yeah, but that is.

And I think sometimes it's like those frustrations and those things where things don't quite fit and where you're questioning and you can't make the decision is because your gut. That's raising questions for you, isn't it?

Sara Burton: 01:02:59

Well, I think it's the other way around. Oh, yes, I do. When you're. And, and this is what I've learned in, in, in sort of recent years by becoming the, the queen of startovers, is that.

And that's why that belt B E L T the trust is so important, because when you trust in yourself, right, Your gut is everything. Now, we've all done this. There will be listeners who are like, oh, my God, I've done this. Right? Where your gut instinct has said, do not do it. Right.

But then your head, the parts of you that feel you need to hear or are conditioned to tell you this, say things like, don't be like that. It might, you know, they're not that bad a person. Or no, you know, maybe you're wrong about that. All of those questions, right.

Aren't necessarily the correct thoughts.

Sue Davies: 01:04:01

No.

Sara Burton: 01:04:01

You know, now our body doesn't forget. And when we've had something, when we learn a lesson, this is where your gut instinct comes from, right? It's. It's stored in your body.

So sometimes if you have trouble speaking your truth, if you bite your tongue a lot about things, if you become conscious of it, you might actually feel it in your throat. You might feel a physical. It's not a gut instinct. It might actually, like, actually I'm feeling a physical reaction in your throat.

And that's because your body is sort of reminding you that you are restricting yourself. Maybe you're not speaking your truth, maybe you're not saying something like, actually, that's not okay. Right.

So your gut instinct is telling you, we've been here before. It's saying to you there's been a situation before and your body is actually triggered. Now how, how woo woo is that? But it's true.

Because sometimes we have thoughts, but they're not necessarily truths.

And you know, like when you think about when you're a parent and you're like, you know, the dangers that we tell, you know, don't touch strangers, for example. That's a good one. So if somebody new comes into your life and you start having a conversation with them, your thoughts might be.

This person might be dodgy. Because in the past you've been told, don't I know.

Sue Davies: 01:05:27

I've just, I've just spent months studying this during all my hypnotherapy. Because of all the subconscious. Yeah. And it is madness because.

But it, but it is all of those things, you know, like if you, if you see your mom, like, you know, classic. And this is, this is in my life, you know, mum being terrified of spiders, screaming, running out of rooms, absolutely hysterical.

I ended up arachnophobic, which is not really a surprise. We.

Sara Burton: 01:05:49

My sister.

Sue Davies: 01:05:49

Isn't my sister scared of frogs and birds. But, but mine's mine spiders. And I have, when I went to Costa Rica last year, I had to kind of retrain myself a little bit.

So I kind of, I've desensitized myself to the point I can, I can see them and not scream and I can now deal with most of them. But, but it, but it is, it's that thing. It's like a learned pattern of behavior.

And if you have those patterns reinforced again and again and again, it's really hard to break them. And, and it isn't when you start, you know, even just opening your mind to the fact that that might not be true.

Sara Burton: 01:06:23

Yes. It's amazing.

Sue Davies: 01:06:24

Not going to kill you.

Sara Burton: 01:06:25

Yeah. Like your brain had been telling you for so long you need to wait because you can't do it yet. Because. Right.

But it was only when you Broke that pattern of like. Hang on, I'm going to question that thought. Yeah, why do I need to wait for that? Actually, I don't. Because that's not a truth.

And so then you can move forward. So it is really powerful stuff. And you don't have to be our age, you know.

Sue Davies: 01:06:48

No, I know. This is it, isn't it? You know, I can't believe I waited until. What was I when I did that?

Sara Burton: 01:06:53

50.

Sue Davies: 01:06:53

I must be in 55 when I made that decision. Decision last year. And, and it's, you know, what, what is it? Why, you know, and I do think. And whether it's.

I do wonder with me as well, whether I'm sort of like second child. I'm like the youngest, I'm like the second daughter. And, and I was always like, no, your older sister can speak first.

Your older sister gets to do this first.

And so I've always been in this place of being not put in the corner kind of thing because, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't a terribly sort of treated child at all. But, but it is just that, you know, that you're playing second fiddle all the time because there's always someone above you.

And I do think there's probably an element of that that is.

That sits within me because if you're the oldest child, I think there's always a tendency to put yourself first and to be more confident because you've had to kind of thing.

Whereas I, you know, a second child, you're quite looked after because the older one will always look after you and, and shout for you and say all those things for you. And I know we see it with my kids, you know, like my, we still. My husband this morning, because it was really icy, I said, oh, can you get that?

Can you get the spray out of my car and put it in moles his car. He's like, will you stop pampering him? And it's like.

But he hasn't, you know, he hasn't thought about it, you know, and he's 26 and we really shouldn't be doing that kind of thing for him now. But it was just, you know, I knew he was running a bit late and it's just like make his life easier. Yeah, he's like second child.

He's like, he is, yeah.

Sara Burton: 01:08:12

But these are the things like, like you say, you don't necessarily have to have had a terrible childhood to, to go back and look at things that happened, but we tend to remember things like you saying, you know, what you Remember about being a second child and those rules, those rules that you've kind of given yourself or that were given to you at that time, they were given to you when you were a child. So you made that decision.

Sue Davies: 01:08:37

I don't care anymore.

Sara Burton: 01:08:39

You know that. Okay. I have to play second fiddle to everyone. But as an adult, you can go back. Yeah, look at that.

And you can understand and kind of, you know, be like, be okay with it, but go. Actually, that little part of me that says that's. That's how it is. It's not relevant now.

Sue Davies: 01:08:57

No, it doesn't matter anymore.

Sara Burton: 01:08:58

I don't. Yeah. So it's kind of. So you can almost say to that part of you, we're good now. We don't have to think like it's.

Sue Davies: 01:09:06

A whole new way of being. You're allowed. You're allowed to say something. You're allowed to have a voice. You're allowed to do the things you want to do.

Sara Burton: 01:09:14

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:09:15

Anyway, should we finish up with what is your favorite quote? Because I think these are always so indicative of where you're at in your own life, but also a great.

For things that you need to share with the world. So what is your favorite quote and who is it by?

Sara Burton: 01:09:31

I have so many, but I've picked this one because this is the one that at the moment, it's, it's. It's so, so, so relevant and has been for a few years because it hit me so hard when I first heard it. And that is. Creativity is a gift.

It doesn't come through if the air is cluttered. And John Lennon said that, and I have to say it, it embodies everything about me now in terms and, and the work that I do.

Because creativity can't come through. Creativity is one of those things that if you are unhappy, if you've got a lot on your plate, it's very difficult to be creative in any way.

We can go through the motions, but to be creative in. In my world is like, that's one of the ultimate things that's to truly express yourself, to let your skulls come out.

And we can't do that if the air is cluttered and, and the air being cluttered is what is going on in your head, what's going on in your environment around you, with the people around you. All this stuff you are taking on board and you can't. Creativity, if you have it in you, it is a gift. But you have to allow yourself to.

To let everything else go, to deal with other things so that you can move forward and be your very best version.

Sue Davies: 01:10:58

Absolutely. I think as well, there was something you said, we both use the very best version of yourself a few times today. And there was. And I think it might be.

So I might be referring to Stephen Bartlett again, actually.

I'm sure this was something that I've heard him say, is that we shouldn't be aiming to be the best versions of ourselves, we should be aiming to be our favorite version of ourselves.

Sara Burton: 01:11:17

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:11:18

Which I think is actually a really lovely kind of twist on it, because we all want to be the best version of ourselves.

Sara Burton: 01:11:23

But.

Sue Davies: 01:11:24

Yeah, but it is, I think that thing about being the favorite version of yourself that kind of really resonates with me anyway.

Sara Burton: 01:11:29

But I would definitely say, until you go for your best version of yourself, how will you know which is your favorite version of your absolute.

Sue Davies: 01:11:37

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

But I do, I think I know at this point my favorite version of myself was me walking down that beach in Costa Rica and living that moment, which I probably. I don't know. I'll probably still be sitting, going, oh, am I ever going to go? If I hadn't been on that meeting that day, who knows? But, yeah.

So how can people connect with you?

Sara Burton: 01:11:57

The easiest way is to find my podcast, which is Start over and Rise. Or you can. And you can find that on my website or on Apple Spotify and. Or ask your Alexa. I love that. I still find that exciting.

And my website is Sara Burton. S A R A B U r t o-n.co.uk and we'll put all the.

Sue Davies: 01:12:22

Details in the show notes as well.

Sara Burton: 01:12:23

Yeah, and obviously if you just put in Start over with Zara in social media, you will find me on all platforms, including Tick Tock. I need to get more on Tick.

Sue Davies: 01:12:31

Are you on Tick Tock?

Sara Burton: 01:12:32

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:12:34

I'm not doing Tick Tock. It's not my thing, I've decided. But anyway, thank you so much for coming on today. I think we've.

There's a lot of value in everything that we've been talking about and so I am really glad you came on and, yeah, we will, I'm sure, be talking again at some point.

Sara Burton: 01:12:50

And thank you so much for having us.

Sue Davies: 01:12:52

I know it's been. It's been really interesting, I think, and it's so nice to have people coming in from outside of the industry because I think we get.

We get so blinkered into what's happening in our little world and believing it's the only space that there is and the only way to do things And I think it's nice to just have a bit of a sort of like a fresh broom kind of thing.

Sara Burton: 01:13:12

I do love that you've done this because. Oh, sorry.

But, but I would say, you know, that was one of the things when I had my photography studio I didn't look always in the photography industry because inspiration can come from other, other things that you can go, I like that. How do I put that into my business? So I'm delighted that you invited me. Thank you so much.

And I really hope that I've added some, some value or given some food for, for.

Sue Davies: 01:13:38

I think it's just interesting having conversations, isn't it? But, and just sort of. Yeah.

Just get it is different viewpoints because what you, you come at it from a consumer point of view into our industry and I know that, you know, you're a frequent salon visitor for many different things and I, and it's just, you know, getting that feedback and from somebody that sees us from outside who's.

Sara Burton: 01:13:58

Also got business knowledge, who's also got.

Sue Davies: 01:14:01

Who also has business knowledge. I know because it was. We, I mean we say we don't know where this is going to go.

It's just like, you know, we're going to talk about the start over rise but, but also, you know, there's all this other stuff that you do and, and there's so much of it. So anyway, I will finish up there and I'll press the stop button. So some really valuable conversation there with Sara. Yeah.

And as I'm sure you found, she's got a, an absolute, a mind of information that's so valuable and her skills have been vast over the years with all of the corporate stuff she's done working in publishing as a photographer. I even forgot she was a photo photographer for a while.

And then all of the business coaching things that I've known her from and some of the takeaways from what she was saying, you know, that whole give it a go, you never know, you know, just you have to try things and you have to let go of past things and all of that stuff about clutter in your mind and clutter around you. I know, you know, I'm guilty of this. I live in a very cluttered mind in a very cluttered environment at different times.

When I get it right, I, I'm amazing.

But often I've got piles of stuff around me of things I'm working on and it, and I know when I clear it that the clarity of mind that I have is, is just like amazing.

So Everything that she's saying and that quote that she finished on from John Lennon about, you know, you won't be creative when you have got clutter around you is, is so, so important and understanding yourself to know what is unnecessary around you so you can let it go and you can start over. And I do think, you know, as we come, by the time this comes out, we're going to be coming up to the new year.

So: 2025

You know, having people from outside of the industry coming in and talking to us is something that I'm going to try and do a little bit more of because we do, we need to broaden our horizons. You know, we have amazing coaches in this industry and amazing people with experience and knowledge of how you can run the best salon.

But sometimes you have to think outside the box and that's what Sara does. That's like my, my guest from the other day, Wendy Garcas. These two women, and you know, I have Mandy Holgate on, on the last season.

These women think in the same way as we do, but just with a slightly different view of the world because they aren't in our, what can be quite a blinkered industry. So take on board what they say, go and investigate them, go and find out who they are.

Go and check out people like Stephen Bartlett, like Richard Branson. You know, they are amazing entrepreneurs who will only give you good ideas and good, sound advice. So I'm going to leave it there for this week.

All the details, as always, will be in the show notes and and I hope to catch up with you soon. Bye for now. Is your salon delivering the exceptional client journey you've always envisioned?

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