BUSINESS SUCCESS FOR WOMEN OVER 55 IN THE SALON INDUSTRY

Sue Davies: 00:00:03

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals, the podcast that allows every therapist, now tech and stylist, to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams.

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Each episode will be looking at a different area of the industry and along the way I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who will be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career.

Sue Davies: 00:00:26

I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional.

Sue Davies: 00:00:31

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Sue Davies: 00:00:37

Hi and welcome to another episode of Inspiring Salon Professionals.

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Today, I'm thrilled to be able to introduce you to a wonderful guest, Wendy Garcia.

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Wendy is a business strategist and a futurist.

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She's also an author of a wonderful espionage series that I've read all three of them so far and they're great.

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I love her books.

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She has over 30 years experience helping women business owners across industries develop winning strategies for growth and success.

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Her mission is empowering mature women in business to embrace agility, overcome fear of risk, and turn their talents into commercial advantage.

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And she has recently just been and done her first TEDx talk where she spoke about a movement that she's created called refinement and was talking about the invaluable contributions that older women can make to our economy and how much money is actually being left on the table for us to take and put in our pockets if we do the work.

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She is breaking down stereotypes, inspiring women everywhere to live purposefully and continuing to make an impact at every stage of their life.

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And as someone who is now 57 years old, this is, you know, my retirement is fast approaching.

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I've got another 12 years.

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And I love what Wendy's doing.

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It's so, so important.

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And this is something that, you know, we do have an aging female population in the salon industry.

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We have many women coming into the industry in their 40s and 50s and even at retirement and so understanding how we can work with that and continue to work and adapt our lives to working as we age and as we hit that retirement age is going to be something that we'll be talking about today.

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Wendy has written five business books, countless articles.

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She was writing for me in the last edition of Sunland Education Journal.

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She did an amazing article, article all about trying to avoid shiny objects, shiny object syndrome.

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And she also has a master's degree in education and professional development.

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She is able to translate business theory into practical, actionable steps.

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She's also an accomplished espionage novelist, as I said already, and she writes, if you want to pick those Books up.

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I will have the links in the show notes, but she writes under the name Wendy Charlton.

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In today's episode, we are going to explore Wendy's journey, her insights on transformation, transforming age into an advantage, and her vision for a future where women are empowered to live and work on their terms.

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So get ready for an inspiring conversation with Wendy and yeah, and I'll look forward to seeing you on the other side.

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I'm going to go off now and welcome Wendy.

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I'll speak to you on the other side.

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Sue Davies: 00:04:01

Here we are, we have Wendy Gardner with us.

Sue Davies: 00:04:03

Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast, Wendy, and I'm really excited to talk to you today because I've known you for ages, it feels like now, and I've been around your world quite a lot, dipped in and out of it a little bit and I always find everything you do to be so just full of knowledge.

Sue Davies: 00:04:19

So can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:23

Yeah, can do.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:24

Thank you very much for inviting me along, Sue.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:26

Lovely to be here today.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:28

So I am a 60 something business owner.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:33

I've been in business for approximately 40 years.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:37

I came originally from a corporate career, I've dipped in and out of that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:42

But I've always had a sort of business of some description going sometimes part time but sometimes full time.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:51

And I am absolutely passionate about estimate SMEs.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:56

I think that they are the engine house of our economy.

Wendy Garcia: 00:04:59

I think that all governments, regardless of whatever persuasion they are, have never really understood the power of SMEs.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:06

And I don't think they've really ever put together a policy suite that's helped us so we survive in spite of what the government do.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:14

And as I get older I see more and more of that expertise and that knowledge maybe not being utilized fully.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:23

And I get quite concerned about that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:25

So as a result of that, I've just started a passion project which I'm sure we'll talk about in a little bit.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:32

But in a nutshell, that's me.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:34

So by day I'm Wendy Charlton.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:36

I do all this business stuff and by night my alter ego takes over.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:40

And Wendy Charlton writes espionage novels.

Sue Davies: 00:05:43

Yeah, I love them.

Sue Davies: 00:05:45

I've read all of them.

Sue Davies: 00:05:47

I just like.

Sue Davies: 00:05:49

The thing I really hate about them is that they end and then I've got to wait for you to write the next one.

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:54

Yeah, yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:05:55

And that's not fair.

Sue Davies: 00:05:56

So when's number four coming?

Wendy Garcia: 00:05:58

It's going to be early next year now.

Sue Davies: 00:06:00

I know.

Sue Davies: 00:06:00

I'm so excited.

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And you know what?

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It's really funny.

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We were watching something a little while ago and they.

Sue Davies: 00:06:05

And it was like they'd mirror.

Sue Davies: 00:06:06

It's like they've taken your idea of like the espionage, like care home.

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I can't wait.

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What we were watching now.

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And it was.

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I said to.

Wendy Garcia: 00:06:15

This is.

Sue Davies: 00:06:15

They've nicked Wendy's idea.

Sue Davies: 00:06:18

I can't think what it was I was watching.

Sue Davies: 00:06:19

But it was so similar.

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And they had.

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It was.

Sue Davies: 00:06:21

And it was like all these old spies.

Sue Davies: 00:06:23

But it is a problem.

Sue Davies: 00:06:24

And yeah, just as a bit of a background, Wendy's Wendy's espionage novels.

Sue Davies: 00:06:28

It's a care home for people that have basically been spies and how you deal with them when they've got official secrets in their heads and they may have dementia or they may have other things that make them spill things they shouldn't be spilling.

Wendy Garcia: 00:06:41

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:06:43

And how they still have those skills and all those wonderful things that they've done as they get into later life, which I think is so much about what Wendy's about with refarming, which is what we'll be talking about as well.

Sue Davies: 00:06:54

Just because you get older doesn't mean that you stop.

Wendy Garcia: 00:06:57

Oh, gosh, no.

Wendy Garcia: 00:06:58

In fact, I find the absolute opposite is true.

Sue Davies: 00:07:01

Yeah, I know.

Sue Davies: 00:07:02

And I think I was.

Sue Davies: 00:07:02

I was watching your TED Talk and that there was a bit on there that you were saying about you're not going to be sitting in a rocking chair.

Wendy Garcia: 00:07:08

No.

Sue Davies: 00:07:09

I can't think what the.

Sue Davies: 00:07:10

I should have written it down because you.

Sue Davies: 00:07:11

It was a really good quote that you said about not sitting in a rocking chair.

Sue Davies: 00:07:15

I'm sure.

Wendy Garcia: 00:07:16

So our phrases.

Wendy Garcia: 00:07:17

We are for women who want to rock, but not in a chair.

Sue Davies: 00:07:20

That's it.

Sue Davies: 00:07:20

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:07:21

And I think it is.

Sue Davies: 00:07:22

And because so much of what you do and everything I've known about you over the few years I've known you is about inspiring.

Sue Davies: 00:07:28

And it isn't just, I mean, obviously you do work with, with, with other genders as well.

Sue Davies: 00:07:32

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:07:33

And so it isn't all about women, but what you're doing now is about women.

Sue Davies: 00:07:38

And, and one of the reasons that I wanted to, to get you on was because I know in our industry, in the salon industry, we have got an 8.

Sue Davies: 00:07:46

We, you know, every industry has got an aging upper end now.

Sue Davies: 00:07:49

It always has been there and now it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger because of the fact that the baby boomers are going through and they're the biggest group that there has ever been.

Sue Davies: 00:07:59

And like, and then the Gen Xers are coming through and we're still quite a large group.

Sue Davies: 00:08:03

And obviously, like, then when, I mean, like now we're having concerns, aren't we, over whether or not there's going to be enough people to survive the world?

Sue Davies: 00:08:09

Because, because population is decreasing so much.

Sue Davies: 00:08:12

So, you know, we are, we're going to be a burden on our industry effectively because we're all going to be getting older and in some ways less able, in some, some ways still wanting to be very active and very part of it when perhaps we're not even wanted anymore.

Sue Davies: 00:08:25

And so it'd just be interesting to kind of see that whole thing of like, where we're going to have like fewer young professionals coming into the industry, which we are starting to see signs of.

Sue Davies: 00:08:33

Apprenticeships are down.

Sue Davies: 00:08:35

I think that they, I saw the thing we've.

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I'm sure they're down by something like 30% in the last so many years.

Sue Davies: 00:08:43

And that there's a whole lot of reasons that that's happened.

Sue Davies: 00:08:45

A lot of it is because there's just less of them, but also there's less commercial businesses for them to go into to train because they're people leaving the high street.

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So there are yet less professionals coming through.

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So for business owners, how do you think that they can possibly start changing their business models so that it encourages the aging population to stay in it and to want to be part of it?

Sue Davies: 00:09:10

Because obviously we're quite a physical job.

Sue Davies: 00:09:12

So the physicality side of it, we may need to have lightened slightly.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:17

Yeah, I think there's a, I think there's, there's two sides to that, to that coin relay.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:23

The first is I think that one of the things that's changed in the industry is the way customers connect with you.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:30

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:31

So, you know, a generation ago you had your own hairdresser.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:34

It was in the high street, you went, it was a regular thing.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:38

There was a relationship that you had with your stylist or with your nail technician or whatever it was.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:43

And, and it was something that you, you invested in to boost your own self confidence and to make sure that you were feeling good about yourself.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:54

I think that Covid had a massive, massive impact on that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:09:58

And I think that what we started to see was people, because they couldn't access it, because they had to find other ways of doing those things, it sort of fell off their radar somewhat.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:11

And yet I speak to people all of the time now who are looking at rates of burnout mental health in women, which is absolutely plummeted as a result of dealing with all of just the general pressures of life.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:29

And I think that they have forgotten, they've lost touch with the things that they need to be doing for themselves.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:35

And for me, appearance is absolutely crucial.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:40

That's not dependent on whether you're a typical size 12 or whether you've got, you know, long blonde hair or whatever it is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:46

It's not about those norms.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:48

This is about you doing something on a regular basis and investing in yourself so that you feel that you're ready to face the day, whatever.

Wendy Garcia: 00:10:56

And whether that's your hair or whether that's your makeup or whether that's your nails or whatever it is, it's doing something that reinforces the value in you.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:07

And I think that because that's changed, perhaps the marketing messages that we need to use to attract people to that experience have changed too.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:18

And, and I think that there needs to be, I think the old way of marketing and just expecting, if you have a salon, for example, for that footfall to come through the door.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:28

I don't think that works anymore at all.

Sue Davies: 00:11:31

No, it's definitely changed.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:33

And so I think that there's an, there's an argument that says that that needs to be updated, that that approach needs to be updated and it needs to be current and it needs to be vital.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:43

And you need to be even clearer about who your ideal client is, know where they hang out and add value to the things that you put out to them so that you are building a more connected tribe.

Wendy Garcia: 00:11:56

I think that's absolutely essential to any business, but in particular to your industry.

Wendy Garcia: 00:12:04

I think it's absolutely vital is, and.

Sue Davies: 00:12:06

I think that whole wellbeing thing is so important.

Sue Davies: 00:12:08

And whether that's the well being of your clients and the potentials that you can bring to them or the well being of your team, you know, this, there is, you know, this, this burnout thing that.

Sue Davies: 00:12:20

I mean, we were just talking about it before we started about burnout a little bit, and it isn't.

Sue Davies: 00:12:23

It's such a common issue nowadays, and I think it's been exacerbated by what we've all gone through over the last few years, because I think that sort of left us in a heightened state of alert.

Sue Davies: 00:12:33

We're still.

Sue Davies: 00:12:34

Our subconscious is still waiting for something else to happen.

Sue Davies: 00:12:38

And I think that, you know, our clients and our potential clients are no different.

Sue Davies: 00:12:42

And I think when we.

Sue Davies: 00:12:45

You've got people that have got more maturity and more experience, then perhaps, you know, there's a different level of understanding and expertise that business owners can kind of use.

Sue Davies: 00:12:55

Those people that have got that extra.

Sue Davies: 00:12:57

Although they may not be able to do some of the practical skills in the same way anymore, but just that, that ability of understanding, connection, empathy, compassion are still massive, massive skills that can be utilized.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:11

I would agree with that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:12

And I'm not, I'm not convinced that, that your industry hasn't lost sight of the.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:21

That traditional relationship of practitioner and consumer being the confidant.

Sue Davies: 00:13:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:29

And I think that is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:31

I think it's.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:32

I.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:32

I've never looked at your industry as being a service industry.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:36

I've always looked at it as a service stroke mental health industry.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:40

Because you do have conversations with your stylist, with your nail technician or whatever you wouldn't have with anybody else.

Sue Davies: 00:13:48

Absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:49

And that serve seriously that and absolutely unmet need.

Wendy Garcia: 00:13:54

And if you, you know, if you are not connected, if you don't have that group of girl girlfriends or, or friends that you can go out with and, and just, you know, just dump the stuff that he's trailing you around, deal with that baggage that you're dealing with.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:11

You have to do that with somebody.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:12

And, and it is one of the.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:15

And whether it was intentional or not, it is one of the things that lots of people built in that relationship with that, with their stylist.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:23

Because it's an incredibly intimate relationship, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:14:26

It's very.

Sue Davies: 00:14:26

And it is.

Sue Davies: 00:14:27

It's like we're the keeper of secrets.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:29

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:14:29

And the Steph who I was talking to before I started recording with you, we were saying, you know, she choose to avoid going into social situations locally in case she bumped into clients, because if she was drinking, they'd be concerned that she might spill the beans on them.

Sue Davies: 00:14:46

We should, you know, the thing.

Sue Davies: 00:14:47

And like.

Sue Davies: 00:14:48

Well, I mean, I think you as a professional, you'd have to be pretty far gone to be in A place where.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:14:52

But, you know, and it is.

Sue Davies: 00:14:54

Because whatever they say to us is confidential.

Wendy Garcia: 00:14:56

It is, absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:14:57

And unless, you know, there may be times when you need to have sort of like supervision with your.

Sue Davies: 00:15:01

With your colleagues to say, you know, there's.

Sue Davies: 00:15:03

There's been a situation and I don't know how to deal with it and I don't know how to process what I've been told or whatever.

Sue Davies: 00:15:09

Because sometimes, you know, we do get told some quite dark things and some quite difficult things.

Sue Davies: 00:15:14

And especially if clients are going through periods of loss or grief or relationship breakup and stuff, sometimes, especially if you're younger, you don't have that experience to be able to understand it and be able to say the right thing back.

Sue Davies: 00:15:26

So sometimes it's good to speak to the older people around you, but it's.

Sue Davies: 00:15:30

Yeah, but we are.

Sue Davies: 00:15:31

We are the keepers of secrets.

Sue Davies: 00:15:33

And that offloading that.

Sue Davies: 00:15:35

I mean, we are.

Sue Davies: 00:15:36

We're like a hidden therapy service, really.

Wendy Garcia: 00:15:38

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:15:40

Realize that, you know, we are.

Sue Davies: 00:15:42

We are a service industry because we are there.

Sue Davies: 00:15:44

You know, you pay us, we provide you with a service.

Sue Davies: 00:15:47

But that service isn't limited to what we do with our hands.

Wendy Garcia: 00:15:50

No, I would absolutely agree.

Wendy Garcia: 00:15:52

And I think it was heightened when we had Covid and well, when we had the lockdowns, people couldn't go out and do that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:15:59

And.

Wendy Garcia: 00:15:59

And although they hadn't necessarily put two and two together and realized that that was what it was, I think for some people, that's absolutely what it was.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:07

That confidant stream where they could use that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:11

A healthy talking relationship so they could talk it out, maybe come to a solution or come to a conclusion.

Sue Davies: 00:16:17

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:17

Just simply wasn't there.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:19

And you only miss something when it's not available.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:22

And I do think that that was one of the big things.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:25

And I think that also for your business owners, I think that one of the difficulties for them is that I don't always think that they say that as a transferable skill.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:36

Yeah, I think they see it as a part of what they do, but I don't think they necessarily value it, you know, in any way, shape or form.

Wendy Garcia: 00:16:44

And.

Sue Davies: 00:16:44

Yeah, and it's something.

Sue Davies: 00:16:45

It's really funny because you do hear all the time about, with business owners, with anybody, that sort of.

Sue Davies: 00:16:52

That probably has.

Sue Davies: 00:16:53

I mean, to be a business owner, generally you're going to be slightly older, although in today's world that doesn't mean anything, does it?

Sue Davies: 00:16:59

I mean, you can be 18 and have your own business now quite easily.

Sue Davies: 00:17:02

And especially in our industry, leave College, go and start your own salon, go and start your own business.

Sue Davies: 00:17:06

It's a regular occurrence.

Sue Davies: 00:17:09

But I think sometimes that sort of, you know, that maturity that you have to, that you don't see, like when you've got young staff and they, they don't have that ability to build rapport so quickly, they don't have that ability to communicate as smoothly or as, as, as fluidly as perhaps someone that's in their 40s or their 50s or even in the late 20s who's got like 10 years experience.

Sue Davies: 00:17:31

Because it's something that, it's a learned skill, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:17:33

And it's something that's hard to teach you people.

Sue Davies: 00:17:37

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:17:38

And I, and I do think that we don't, we, we don't value that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:17:41

And there was a piece a couple of years ago now by Forbes magazine and what it looked at was the success rate of when you start a business and they concluded through the research that they did that if you are 50 and you start a business, you are twice as likely to end up running a successful sustainable business than your 30 year old counterpart.

Sue Davies: 00:18:07

Really?

Wendy Garcia: 00:18:07

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:18:08

Now there is a reason for that and it is that life experience that you have and you, you not only know a lot about life, but you will have constructed for yourself some sort of risk assessment and risk management mindset.

Wendy Garcia: 00:18:22

You'll understand a lot of the unwritten stuff about how relationships work, the importance of systems and processes and all of that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:18:31

And so when you've been there and done it, been around the block a bit, you might, you know, been there and got the T shirt.

Wendy Garcia: 00:18:37

You, when you start a business at that age 50 or over, you are more likely to get it right first time around and you're, you're more likely to make less mistakes, mistakes than you would maybe if you're in your 20s or 30s.

Sue Davies: 00:18:51

I think that there's like an innate confidence, isn't there, that you grow as you get older and you know, and as much as you know, internally, I still feel like I'm 25, I can't help it.

Sue Davies: 00:19:02

I still, the other night I was at a family wedding, I was still doing lots of dancing with the 20 somethings because I love doing that.

Sue Davies: 00:19:09

And my recent running enabled me to be able to do low, bend down to the floor things and everything and get up in one motion, which was quite, quite amazing.

Sue Davies: 00:19:20

But I love being able to still do stuff like that and that.

Sue Davies: 00:19:23

And I mean, you know, they're brilliant, they don't judge me, they're just like, oh, My God.

Sue Davies: 00:19:27

Like Auntie Sue's still got it kind of thing.

Sue Davies: 00:19:29

They may snigger behind my back, but, but hopefully not.

Sue Davies: 00:19:33

But I think it's, you know, we have, we just, we have more confidence, more, more understanding of the world.

Sue Davies: 00:19:38

And there's so much that that gives you, isn't it, when you start a business so much?

Sue Davies: 00:19:43

Because I think if you can go out there and speak confidently about what it is that you do and what it is that you can provide and how that's going to benefit people, if you're, if you're 20 and trying to do that, firstly, if you're trying to talk to an older audience, they're less likely to believe you because they know that you don't have the life experience that you may need.

Sue Davies: 00:20:01

And there's so many things against you when you're younger because you, you may not have the money.

Sue Davies: 00:20:05

There's, you know, there is, isn't there just so many different, more factors that can make it fail the younger you are, I suppose.

Sue Davies: 00:20:12

And that Forbes research probably backs that up quite well.

Sue Davies: 00:20:17

But.

Sue Davies: 00:20:17

Yeah, so, so then when we have women particularly, I mean, we do have a lot of men in the industry as well.

Sue Davies: 00:20:25

I think about 5% men in the industry.

Sue Davies: 00:20:27

Not lots, but there's a few of them, but mainly a female population that are aging in the industry or coming into the industry at an older age.

Sue Davies: 00:20:37

Because our industry, and particularly the sort of more holistic side of the industry and the beauty side of the industry, I think hair doesn't get it as much because it's a standing profession.

Sue Davies: 00:20:47

And I don't think that many older people want to stand all day, but definitely beauty and like all the holistic practice, like massage and all that kind of stuff is a real massive area for sort of like second and third careers.

Sue Davies: 00:21:03

And so we do see large, large numbers of women in their 40s and 50s coming into the industry that don't have that, although they're quite confident in themselves about what they do.

Sue Davies: 00:21:13

And I see through a lot of our groups that they really do struggle with understanding the business side of things and how to, how to run a business, how to set it up, how to do marketing, but which is, which is difficult enough.

Sue Davies: 00:21:26

But then if they haven't had the experience of doing all of that, and then you start throwing in things like Mailerlite and social media and I didn't even know.

Sue Davies: 00:21:36

I mean, we know we sit in this world a little bit.

Sue Davies: 00:21:40

All of the, there's just so much tech.

Sue Davies: 00:21:42

So do you have any, any Wonderful words of advice that you can give to how people that are slightly older, who may be less able to take that information in, are able to kind of get by and function to create that success.

Wendy Garcia: 00:21:59

I would, I would give them three pieces of advice.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:02

First of all, if your life is on your mobile phone like it is for the rest of us, don't ever kid yourself that you're not technically able or that you're technophobic, because you're not.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:14

If you, if you have mastered that piece of technology you are holding in your hand more technology in a mobile phone than actually we had available in the world, that put the man on the moon.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:27

So.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:28

So really, if you can master that level of tech technology, don't kid yourself that you can't.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:33

That's the first thing.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:35

The second thing is that lots of people will kid you that in order to be, you know, a modern business owner, you've got to be on TikTok, you've got to be on Instagram, you've got to be on Pinterest, you've got to be doing LinkedIn and you've got to have a Facebook group and a Facebook account and a Facebook page and all of this.

Wendy Garcia: 00:22:55

And I would say to you, it's better for you to learn who your audience are and where they hang out, because no audience hangs out on every platform.

Sue Davies: 00:23:05

Right.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:06

So if you think and if you're tiring yourself by being present on every platform, you're wasting a huge amount of time and effort.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:14

So don't do that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:16

Find out where your particular client hangs out, find out where their platform is and then consistently post on that platform.

Sue Davies: 00:23:27

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:27

Be clear about your messages and it will hit the mark.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:31

But you have to be patient.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:34

You know, people say, I'll put a Facebook out add up last week and I've had nothing from it.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:39

Well, I'm not surprised.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:41

On average in business, what you do today, if you've got an activity or you're launching something today, the results of that will show up in your bank account in 90 days time.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:52

That's the reality.

Sue Davies: 00:23:54

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:23:54

So if you're thinking that you need a quick fix, the quickest you're likely to get.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:00

There are exceptions to this, but they are exceptions.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:03

The quickest you're likely to get is three months.

Sue Davies: 00:24:05

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:06

Now, as long as you know that, what that does is it takes a bit of the pressure off because when you're putting this stuff out, you're not looking every day and saying, oh my God, I haven't, you know, I'm five Users down or I'm five years down or whatever.

Sue Davies: 00:24:19

There's tumbleweed no one's liking.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:21

Exactly.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:22

So, so you need to, you to have a bit of bottle and you need to hold your nerve.

Wendy Garcia: 00:24:26

And as long as you're doing the right things and as long as you're consistent, consistency is absolutely crucial and consistent, it will pay off.

Sue Davies: 00:24:35

And so because there's always this argument of like, oh, you should post at 6:00 in the morning on a Thursday, or you should post at whatever time.

Sue Davies: 00:24:43

So do you, what, what model would you hold for consistency?

Sue Davies: 00:24:48

Is it eight once a day thing that you should post at a particular time that Facebook recommends or Instagram recommends?

Sue Davies: 00:24:54

Or is it just that you, you suit, you know, you serve your own timetable and you just keep posting.

Sue Davies: 00:25:00

And is it something that you need to do daily, weekly, monthly?

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:04

So, so I think that this is, it's twofold.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:07

It's about who you're trying to attract and it's about your availability.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:12

One of the key things that I do with business, women in particular, is particularly if they're part of my micro business growth club.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:21

One of the big questions that we ask right from the word go is what are you prepared to do?

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:26

So I have women who say, I'm really, I want to run my business, I think I can do it, I want, this is the sort of income that I'm looking for.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:34

But I only want to work three days a week and that's great.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:38

If that's the way you want to structure your business, then you have to make sure that if you're working three days, use that day, those three days in the cleverest way to get the impact that you want.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:49

So that's the first thing.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:51

If you're only working three days a week, you don't want to spend all those three days doing nothing but posting on social media.

Wendy Garcia: 00:25:57

The other thing is when, because of the way the platforms work now and because of the way the algorithms work, there is a school of thought that says, I'm really worried that if I post every day, people are just going to get sick and fed up of saying my stuff never going to happen.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:14

The algorithms are built so that that doesn't happen.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:17

So if you're thinking you're posting much, you're not.

Sue Davies: 00:26:21

No, it's probably still not enough.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:23

No.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:24

When your plat so, so it's not about spray and pry.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:29

So spraying as much content as you can and prying some of it'll hit.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:33

It's about landing and expanding.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:35

So it's about Targeting your content so that it hits the right audience at the right time and therefore has an impact.

Sue Davies: 00:26:43

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:43

So actually what I teach people is, is that less is more sometimes.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:49

Yeah, you can, you can post less than you are now and yet build an audience quicker if you're doing it correctly.

Sue Davies: 00:26:57

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:26:58

And so for me that's absolutely essential.

Wendy Garcia: 00:27:00

It isn't just about the endlessly splurging stuff out, it's about being deliberate, it's about being targeted and it is about being consistent.

Sue Davies: 00:27:09

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:27:09

The other thing that I'd add to that is that when you see these, these tables that talk about the fact that the best time to post is 6:00 on a Friday when they do those, when they post those figures, they're taking in right across the board, they're taking in everybody's use.

Wendy Garcia: 00:27:29

So somewhere buried in those figures, maybe some of your ideal client base, but actually your ideal client base will be based across all of the other times as well have by understanding who your ideal client is, you get to know what their usage patterns are.

Wendy Garcia: 00:27:48

So one of the things that I've, I've just launched a new project and a new product for me and it's called the Young Entrepreneurs Club.

Wendy Garcia: 00:27:56

And it's a, it's a club for 14 to 17 year olds to see if they have got it in them to make an entrepreneur, if they could be a business person.

Wendy Garcia: 00:28:07

All of the research says I should never post over the weekend because that's when people are less likely to look.

Wendy Garcia: 00:28:14

I posted something yesterday and it's been singly, it's been the highest hitting post that I have ever done across any of my businesses.

Sue Davies: 00:28:24

Yeah, I know.

Sue Davies: 00:28:27

I think I commented on that post.

Wendy Garcia: 00:28:29

Yeah, you did, you did.

Wendy Garcia: 00:28:30

And so sometimes it's, it's better to know who your audience is rather than to take note of some generalized rules that somebody's come up with.

Sue Davies: 00:28:39

Because I do.

Sue Davies: 00:28:41

Yeah, I quite often, whenever I'm posting I think, okay, so I want to talk to people that have lived the life that I've lived in the salon owners.

Sue Davies: 00:28:49

And I've been there, done it.

Sue Davies: 00:28:50

When did I used to have time to sit down with my phone?

Wendy Garcia: 00:28:54

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:28:55

And generally it was on a Sunday and generally it was after 7 in the evening or before 8 in the morning.

Sue Davies: 00:29:02

And so when I'm, when I'm doing my post, I mean, sometimes if I'm on Linked, I have to say LinkedIn, I'm not so fussed about.

Sue Davies: 00:29:07

But with the others, if I'm scheduling, I will schedule them for very Specific points when I know.

Sue Davies: 00:29:12

So when I was doing that role, that's when I'd sit looking at my phone.

Sue Davies: 00:29:16

But then, but then also Facebook particularly does random things now.

Sue Davies: 00:29:21

Even linked actually LinkedIn does it as well.

Sue Davies: 00:29:23

I just saw something this morning on LinkedIn that was two weeks old.

Wendy Garcia: 00:29:26

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:29:26

And it's because someone had commented on it so it had kind of moved up their feed a little bit.

Sue Davies: 00:29:31

And LinkedIn works in a very, very peculiar way.

Sue Davies: 00:29:35

But Facebook, even with Facebook you'll still get stuff that's like four to seven days old showing you a newsfeed.

Wendy Garcia: 00:29:41

And as more people start to use social media platforms, they change because they evolve.

Wendy Garcia: 00:29:47

And so one of the key things, I think one of for your industry in particular is Pinterest.

Wendy Garcia: 00:29:53

So lots of people think, oh well, you know, I might, I might post the odd thing on Pinterest.

Wendy Garcia: 00:29:58

But I'm not really sure whether it's.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:00

For me Pinterest is becoming one of the fastest growing search engines.

Sue Davies: 00:30:05

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:05

The world.

Sue Davies: 00:30:06

Because I think as well is that this is one of the things that's really interesting about where you're trying to grow your business is that if you use YouTube, it's a search engine.

Sue Davies: 00:30:16

If you use Pinterest, it's a search engine.

Sue Davies: 00:30:19

If you use Facebook and LinkedIn, I don't believe they are searching.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:23

They're not.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:23

No, they.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:24

Absolutely not.

Sue Davies: 00:30:24

They are literally social media platforms.

Sue Davies: 00:30:27

They are there to connect you with other people.

Sue Davies: 00:30:28

But the others are search based, our search engine based.

Sue Davies: 00:30:31

And so if you know, even just put in a two minute video, like you know, YouTube shorts now, what are they?

Sue Davies: 00:30:37

Less than 10 minutes?

Sue Davies: 00:30:38

Aren't I think a YouTube short, have a YouTube channel.

Sue Davies: 00:30:41

But then, but then you get into that whole thing of like people don't like being on video and ah, yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:30:46

Just there's, there's so much isn't there that the obstacles to people and how they market.

Sue Davies: 00:30:52

There is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:30:53

And I think that also it's this whole idea, I mean if you look at the average, the average length of a Pinterest or an Instagram post, all of the evidence says that actually if it's over a minute long, it's too long.

Sue Davies: 00:31:07

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:07

So, so you're suddenly looking at well, what can I fill 60 seconds with?

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:12

When you're trying to fill it, if you're being verbal, 60 seconds feels like an hour.

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:17

I do get that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:18

But there's lots of really short snippet things that you can do particularly if you're in a visual industry.

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:24

And of course you are.

Sue Davies: 00:31:25

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:31:26

This is it, you know, I mean I did, I put a video out for, on my, my home salon.

Sue Davies: 00:31:30

I put a video out the other day that literally was just like a 30 second loop of someone's face being massaged.

Sue Davies: 00:31:37

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:31:37

And it got loads of hits because it, because it just stops people and people think, oh, that looks nice.

Sue Davies: 00:31:42

Oh, and it isn't.

Sue Davies: 00:31:43

As soon as you make someone think, oh, that looks nice, you're halfway there.

Wendy Garcia: 00:31:47

Yeah, absolutely right.

Sue Davies: 00:31:49

And even just having like, I mean, and Also on my YouTube channel, I've just put up.

Sue Davies: 00:31:52

It's not, it's not, not a public video, but I've just created and I'm not on, I'm not on it.

Sue Davies: 00:31:57

I mean, I don't have a problem with being on, on camera.

Sue Davies: 00:32:00

But if you do have a problem with being on camera and I think especially as you, I think especially as you're.

Sue Davies: 00:32:04

As a more mature person, a.

Sue Davies: 00:32:06

We're not used to doing that kind of stuff.

Sue Davies: 00:32:08

You know, the 18 to 35 year olds, they've been doing this stuff for years and although some of them may still have anxiety around it, they're all quite used to being on camera and having their selfies and all the rest of it.

Sue Davies: 00:32:18

And I think as a sort of probably 40 or 50 plus, particularly female, you know, you may be concerned that you've got a few too many lines or that you've got jowls or that you've got a bit of gray coming through or whatever, whatever it is.

Sue Davies: 00:32:31

But we know that we have confidence issues around how we look as we age.

Wendy Garcia: 00:32:35

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:32:35

And so going on camera for some women can be quite, quite daunting and quite an overwhelming thing to consider.

Sue Davies: 00:32:42

But you can also do video without being on camera.

Sue Davies: 00:32:45

And I've got this one, it's about four and a half minutes long and it's about eye yoga that I've done for my clients and, and it's just literally because they're going to have their eyes shut anyway.

Sue Davies: 00:32:54

So there is a visual that I've got and it's just like a sort of seed, like a seascape kind of thing with some nice music going and just me talking them through like this little exercise.

Sue Davies: 00:33:06

And that video, if I made it public, would probably get quite a lot of views, to be honest.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:10

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:33:11

Because.

Sue Davies: 00:33:11

And I'm not even on it.

Sue Davies: 00:33:13

All it is, is my voice.

Sue Davies: 00:33:15

But it's.

Sue Davies: 00:33:16

And you know, it does, it doesn't have to be overwhelming.

Sue Davies: 00:33:19

There are other ways of doing it.

Sue Davies: 00:33:20

You can even make AI voices do it if you don't want to hear your own voice.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:24

Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:26

I think there's.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:26

There's lots of things in.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:28

In terms of technology that is really helpful, but I also think that the world is shifting, and I don't think that we are.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:36

Are dealing with the same levels of.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:43

Of judgment anymore.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:45

Judgment only works if you take it on board.

Sue Davies: 00:33:48

Absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:49

So if, If I want to feel less confident, then I will do comparisons between me and Bo Derek or, you know, whoever.

Wendy Garcia: 00:33:58

Whoever it is that gives my age away.

Sue Davies: 00:34:02

So, you know, coming out of the sea with.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:04

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:05

And I.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:05

And I'm subjecting myself to that.

Sue Davies: 00:34:07

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:08

But you know what?

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:09

Mature woman women are bigger and better than that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:13

And what they're really interested in is not the superficial, but it is around the other stuff.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:19

It is around the feel good factor.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:22

How do we feel confident?

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:23

How do we live the life that we want to live?

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:27

And that as long as we feel that we are making the best of ourselves for our benefit, not for anybody else's, not for a camera lens or anything, as long as we feel we're doing right by us, then it will work for us.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:42

And I think that we are less caught up in that superficiality in.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:48

In a lot of ways.

Wendy Garcia: 00:34:49

And I think we need to lean into that.

Sue Davies: 00:34:52

Yeah, it's.

Sue Davies: 00:34:53

I mean, it's like, for example, like today, because I knew I was scheduling coming on here and I was doing.

Sue Davies: 00:34:57

I've even got eyeshadow on today.

Sue Davies: 00:34:59

You can see it.

Sue Davies: 00:35:00

But I have actually got eyeshadow on, which I don't always do, but I was at this wedge and I was.

Sue Davies: 00:35:04

I had some eyeshadow and I was like, oh, you know, I think I might start doing that again, but generally I don't care.

Sue Davies: 00:35:09

I'll be out in, like, walking the dogs in the forest, no makeup on.

Sue Davies: 00:35:12

I don't.

Sue Davies: 00:35:12

I don't care anymore.

Sue Davies: 00:35:14

And I.

Sue Davies: 00:35:15

I have to.

Sue Davies: 00:35:15

Whenever I'm doing the podcast, I tend.

Sue Davies: 00:35:17

I do tend to put makeup on.

Sue Davies: 00:35:18

And I don't know.

Sue Davies: 00:35:19

I don't know why.

Sue Davies: 00:35:20

Maybe it makes me feel more comfortable.

Sue Davies: 00:35:21

I don't know.

Sue Davies: 00:35:22

Because it doesn't.

Sue Davies: 00:35:22

I have this odd thing where it doesn't matter when I photograph some.

Sue Davies: 00:35:25

When I'm on camera.

Sue Davies: 00:35:25

Camera, I want to have makeup on for some reason.

Sue Davies: 00:35:28

It's strange, isn't it?

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:29

But, you know, that's.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:31

That's your standard, and we all have those standards.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:34

So for me, right from when I was a really young woman, I would not even put my bins out for the bin men to collect unless I'd got lipstick on.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:44

It was just one of those things.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:46

And even if I hadn't got any other makeup on, my lipstick was my armor, if you like, was the thing that I always used to do.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:54

There is no right or wrong to these rules.

Wendy Garcia: 00:35:57

They're the rules that make you feel that you are, you are suited and booted and ready to face the day, whatever that looks like.

Wendy Garcia: 00:36:05

So whether that's wearing your favorite color or whether that's putting a bit of lipstick on, or whether that's making sure that your hair is, you know, clean and brushed or whatever it is, we will all have things that actually we do because they bolster our self confidence, because we have invested that time in ourselves and it'll be different for everybody.

Wendy Garcia: 00:36:24

And if you're not doing that, if you're not in tune with that stuff, you will struggle.

Wendy Garcia: 00:36:29

Yeah, but you know, to, to be putting yourself out there, die after die after die.

Wendy Garcia: 00:36:34

And these don't have to be long rituals, these can be little things, but they're the things that, that just say, you know, you're good enough, you, you're good enough to be out there.

Wendy Garcia: 00:36:44

And I'm all for putting women in touch with all that sort of stuff because, because it is, it is absolutely crucial that we show up and that we step into the light and people.

Sue Davies: 00:36:55

Yeah, because we've got, we have so much.

Sue Davies: 00:36:57

We have, you know, just the life experience we have to, to pass back to people.

Sue Davies: 00:37:02

And you know, like when I, when I was doing the magazine, you know, we had this whole thing about leave the ladder down.

Sue Davies: 00:37:06

And it is, and it's so important that as, as women of a, of whatever age you are, whether you're 30, whether you're 40, whether you're 50, 60, whatever you are, you know, we should be handing our knowledge down to the generations below us.

Sue Davies: 00:37:19

And I think, you know, the fact that we can do that confidently and if we, you know, and we should be welcoming those younger people into our lives so that they do get the benefit of being around us and understanding what we've gone through so that they can have examples of what it is to survive and what it is to, to prosper and to be empowered and to do all the wonderful things that we've been able to do that our mums probably couldn't do.

Sue Davies: 00:37:44

And so, you know, and it does travel back down through the generations and all like, and with all the techie stuff, you know, people do get so hung up on, you know, with that whole thing of like being on camera is such a lot.

Sue Davies: 00:37:56

And I see it in so many of the salon groups where people are trying to get their business off grand.

Sue Davies: 00:38:01

They're like, they feel that they have to be on camera.

Sue Davies: 00:38:04

But, you know, there are ways of attaching, adapting to suit what you're comfortable with.

Sue Davies: 00:38:09

And the same as, like me, I'm comfortable not having my makeup on to have a photo or even actually, I mean, I do lives from in the forest with no makeup on, and I don't care.

Sue Davies: 00:38:16

But I suppose this feels more formal, so I suppose I feel I should.

Sue Davies: 00:38:20

But it is.

Sue Davies: 00:38:20

But it's just adaptation, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:38:22

And all it is is just you just find the way that makes you.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:25

Feel comfortable to promote for, for business women to do that is to build a brand.

Sue Davies: 00:38:31

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:31

So if you build a brand, then when you get up on the camera, it's not you that they're saying, it's your brand that they're saying.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:38

And some women can deal with that far easier because they feel less vulnerable, they feel less exposed.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:45

And actually it's a really, really good way of building a loyal following.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:49

So.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:50

So brand creation and brand management for business serves more than just one purpose of being part of your marketing and sales.

Sue Davies: 00:38:59

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:38:59

It's actually giving you a.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:02

It's giving you a platform where you're not standing up as yourself, but you're standing up in terms of the value that you bring.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:09

And it makes it so much easier for women if they're doing that, to stand up and be seen in front of a camera.

Sue Davies: 00:39:15

Yeah, because.

Sue Davies: 00:39:16

And so I take it from that, like, you mean like, for example, like, you know, with me with the inspiring salon professionals podcast, that brand, the podcast.

Sue Davies: 00:39:23

And so I can stand there and it isn't.

Sue Davies: 00:39:25

It's kind of like a filter, isn't it, really?

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:27

Yes, it is.

Sue Davies: 00:39:28

And that just sort of.

Sue Davies: 00:39:29

That makes, makes you look wonderful because you've got this amazing business around you and the, you all the colors and the name and, and whatever font you're using, all of those things, they don't detract from your message and you.

Sue Davies: 00:39:41

But they, they kind of, they take the pressure off a little bit.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:44

They give you a platform to stand up.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:46

And so it's not you that people are looking at per se, unless you are your brand.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:52

So it's not you per side that people are looking at, but it is your brand and what you stand for and what value you bring.

Wendy Garcia: 00:39:57

And it just makes it so much easier to go out there and put yourself.

Wendy Garcia: 00:40:00

Yourself in, in that spotlight.

Sue Davies: 00:40:02

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:40:03

Because for any businesswoman, the first thing they have to get their head around what, regardless of whatever age you are or whatever industry you're in, that if you are not visible, people can't find you to come and do business with you.

Sue Davies: 00:40:16

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:40:16

So you, if you choose to, to create your own business, you have to get used to being visible.

Wendy Garcia: 00:40:22

There is no shortcut, there is no other way.

Wendy Garcia: 00:40:25

But you can do it in a way that you feel comfortable and that you feel in control and you don't feel pressurized to do things that you don't want to do.

Sue Davies: 00:40:33

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:40:34

Because I think this is, I know, like with some of the people I've been working with recently, a couple of them have had a lot of issues around feeling pressure.

Sue Davies: 00:40:45

And it's, and it's, it's not even peer pressure sometimes.

Sue Davies: 00:40:48

I think it's just sort of like a pressure of the fact that there's other people in the industry that are behaving in a particular way that they see has brought them success, and so they then feel they have to emulate that in their own way.

Sue Davies: 00:41:01

And I think it's, you know, I've been doing like, hypnotherapy stuff with them and trying to sort of like, help them through that process to be in a place where they're confident being online in whatever guys, they want to be there.

Sue Davies: 00:41:12

Because it isn't about what, you know, X brand over there is doing or X person.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:17

Absolutely not.

Sue Davies: 00:41:18

And, you know, and just because they're happy being online and sharing all and sundry about what they, what they ate for dinner on Sunday and who they were out of on Saturday night, it doesn't, it doesn't resonate necessarily with what your audience is looking for, you know.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:31

And I think that's okay.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:33

Where you see those things happening and you see the success that that is bringing to that person, just do a double check and say, is their audience the same as mine?

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:44

And very often it won't be.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:46

If you feel uncomfortable about what somebody else is doing, I guarantee you they're pointing it A different audience.

Sue Davies: 00:41:52

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:52

And it happens in every industry now.

Wendy Garcia: 00:41:54

I can think of people who do the same sort of thing as me, and I look around and I sometimes look at their posts and it makes me cringe because I think I could never do that, but neither would I want to because actually they are targeting that in an audience that wants that sort of.

Sue Davies: 00:42:13

Yeah, yeah, this is it.

Sue Davies: 00:42:14

And I don't want to be that person.

Wendy Garcia: 00:42:16

Exactly, exactly.

Wendy Garcia: 00:42:18

So it's about really having the courage of your own convictions and listening to your gut.

Wendy Garcia: 00:42:23

And if your gut is telling you that that's not for me, then don't do it.

Sue Davies: 00:42:26

Yeah, this is.

Sue Davies: 00:42:28

And I think, you know, we do feel.

Sue Davies: 00:42:29

And I don't, I don't think, I think it's maybe a social pressure, isn't a peer pressure.

Sue Davies: 00:42:33

It's probably more of a social pressure to kind of emulate.

Sue Davies: 00:42:36

If you see that success that you feel, that's, oh, well, you know, if Company A is doing that and, you know, they're turning over seven figures a year or six figures or they're making, making, you know, a thousand pound a day, whatever, like the value of that figure is to you, that's astounding.

Sue Davies: 00:42:51

And it makes you want to have that money.

Sue Davies: 00:42:53

You've got, you've got to find a way.

Sue Davies: 00:42:55

And it isn't that the ideal client work can be so important in, in tracking down because you're.

Sue Davies: 00:43:01

They.

Sue Davies: 00:43:02

The people that like that.

Sue Davies: 00:43:03

If you don't like it, the people you want to work with aren't going to like it, don't like it either.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:07

That's absolutely true.

Sue Davies: 00:43:08

And so you've got, you know, whatever it is that you, you, I think sometimes you just have to sit and look in the mirror, don't you, a little bit, and just work out what it, what it is that you do like.

Sue Davies: 00:43:18

Because if you like it, the chances are there's going to be 5% of the population that like that as well that are going to connect with what it is that you're saying.

Sue Davies: 00:43:25

Because you've got to remember you're not trying to connect with everybody.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:29

That's right.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:29

You, you, you have a, you have an audience out there that, that likes you, that knows what you do, that trust what you do.

Sue Davies: 00:43:37

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:37

He's willing to do business with you and that is your ideal audience.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:42

What lots of people do, however, is they try and be all things to all people and they miss the mark.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:47

And it is this difference between spray and pry and London expand.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:51

If you spray and pry, you know, you spray enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick, but lots of it won't.

Sue Davies: 00:43:57

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:43:58

And what you want when you're running a business is you want to know exactly, exactly who you are targeting, exactly who your ideal audience is, and then target key messages so that it lands with them.

Sue Davies: 00:44:10

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:44:11

And they hear it, they like it, they want to take it to the next step and then you can expand your relationship with them.

Wendy Garcia: 00:44:19

And it, it is the way that buying motive has shifted in the last two generations buying motive has shifted enormously and I don't think that people realize, but one of the most powerful consumer groups at the moment is women over 55.

Sue Davies: 00:44:35

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:44:36

They have the most disposable income, they have huge, huge commercial influence buying power.

Wendy Garcia: 00:44:44

And so if that's your audience, you better get with the program and find out exactly what it is they're looking for.

Sue Davies: 00:44:50

This is it.

Sue Davies: 00:44:50

Because I do think, you know, for most people in the beauty sector, you know, the 40 plus woman or the 50 plus women are a huge demographic ideal client because you know, the anti aging that is required to help us and whether, and whether that be to stop our wrinkles or you know, maybe not to stop them, to maybe prevent our wrinkles slightly or to help hide them because that's basically what we're doing and puff them out and do all sorts, we do all magical things to them.

Sue Davies: 00:45:21

But that, you know, as much as there's 20 year olds that want to have Botox, which I still don't understand, but if there's, if there's treatments out there that are targeting those women, you've got like the world is your oyster.

Sue Davies: 00:45:35

And if as a mature woman you're going to speak their language.

Wendy Garcia: 00:45:38

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:45:39

And so you know, as a woman that's over.

Sue Davies: 00:45:42

I mean, you know, you specialize in over 50s, don't you?

Sue Davies: 00:45:45

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:45:47

But I think, you know, our industry, you know, even if you're over 40, you're going to speak the language of a 50 plus in a better way than somebody else.

Sue Davies: 00:45:54

You know, and I'm not trying to disparage the young people at all because they're wonderful.

Sue Davies: 00:45:59

But we do have an opportunity as later life women to speak to later life women.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:05

Yeah, we do.

Sue Davies: 00:46:06

And there's a huge number of us in industry, so.

Sue Davies: 00:46:09

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:46:09

And we, and we can provide a service that many other people can't.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:13

I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:15

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:15

It's changed all recognition in terms of the way that we age.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:20

We value our wisdom far more than we ever did.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:22

What we're about is investing in our health and well being.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:25

Not necessarily having the lightest, that color hair tint or whatever it is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:30

It's about feeling good in ourselves and being comfortable in our own skin.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:35

And once we get that under our belt, what we then start to do is look at ways that we can invest in ourselves to make ourselves feel better.

Sue Davies: 00:46:42

Yes.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:42

And that, that is always going to happen.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:46

And we, because we look for that authenticity.

Wendy Garcia: 00:46:51

There are lots of women who say to themselves, you Know, if I want to lose a few, If I, If I want to lose weight, do I go off and join Weight Watchers or whatever?

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:00

The reason that these, that these weight reduction clubs are so popular is that very often it's somebody from your community standing up with your voice saying, do you know what I've been there and done?

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:13

If you walk into a weight reduction clinic looking at somebody who's a size 6 and you know, who might be in her late teens and early twenties, who is clearly always looked like that, there will be a bit of cynicism in there, rightly or wrongly, as to whether that person can understand where you're coming from.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:34

That's what we're looking for.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:36

We want empathy with our transformation.

Sue Davies: 00:47:39

What, shared experience.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:40

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:41

We don't want somebody standing up and saying, well, of course if you go off and you run a marathon every day, of course you're going to be fitter.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:46

Of course you're going to be thinner.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:47

That might be true, but that's not what we want to hear.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:50

What we want to hear is that actually, I have an ordinary life.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:53

I've looked like this for a long time.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:55

I'd like to do this and improve it a little bit.

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:57

How can you help me do that?

Wendy Garcia: 00:47:59

And if they're coming at it from a point of empathy and from a point of experience, we're more likely to listen to.

Wendy Garcia: 00:48:06

Women over 50 have got so much untapped potential because they don't even recognize that this is a thing.

Sue Davies: 00:48:13

No, I think we.

Sue Davies: 00:48:14

And I think as well that we've grown up in a.

Sue Davies: 00:48:17

With a mindset that what we have to say perhaps isn't as important.

Sue Davies: 00:48:22

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:48:24

And it really.

Sue Davies: 00:48:26

I just find it so frustrating that, you know, and I've tried to instill in my daughter that everything she says has value and that she is as powerful as she wants to be.

Sue Davies: 00:48:37

And she is.

Sue Davies: 00:48:38

She is so much more.

Sue Davies: 00:48:40

I mean, I don't know.

Sue Davies: 00:48:41

I say outspoken, but she just, she speaks her mind.

Sue Davies: 00:48:44

And she, and she.

Sue Davies: 00:48:45

Not that she doesn't care what people think, but that she is less bothered by what people might think about what she says.

Sue Davies: 00:48:53

And I think that as a generation of women over 50, that kind of age group, I think we.

Sue Davies: 00:48:58

We still have that hang up a little bit, don't we?

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:01

I think you're right.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:01

But I also think that your daughter is unusual, and your daughter has turned out like she has because of you.

Sue Davies: 00:49:07

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:07

And I see lots of youngsters coming through now in their late teens, early 20s, who actually are almost like My mother was.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:17

Who won't say boo to a goose, who will put up with ridiculous nonsense because they don't feel that they have a right to stand up and be counted and say what they.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:25

I think, and I do think it's.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:27

I think things are changing, but in my experience, big societal change takes more than a generation to make.

Sue Davies: 00:49:34

Yeah, so.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:35

So it's like with the refinement movement, you know, and people are saying, well, it's for, it's only for the over 50s.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:41

I will accept anybody over 30s, in their 30s, because at some point you may not be there yet, but you will be.

Sue Davies: 00:49:47

Yeah, you.

Sue Davies: 00:49:48

Absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:48

And I want your experience of that point in your life not to be a.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:53

Oh my God, I'm facing menopause.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:55

My life, life's terrible.

Wendy Garcia: 00:49:57

I don't look and feel as I want to, you know, isn't lifecraft.

Wendy Garcia: 00:50:01

I don't want them to feel like that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:50:03

I want them to approach this age in their life with excitement, with anticipation about the fact that it's the next stage and there are loads of great things waiting for them.

Wendy Garcia: 00:50:13

Because there are.

Sue Davies: 00:50:14

Yeah, completely.

Sue Davies: 00:50:16

And I do think, I mean, like, I have to say my daughter has had me as an example and I, although, I mean I'm very, I can be very backward in coming forward and saying things, but I've always pushed forward and I've always empowered myself.

Sue Davies: 00:50:28

And I think she has, she has had a good example set.

Sue Davies: 00:50:31

She's been in my business from the moment she was able to come out working with me.

Sue Davies: 00:50:36

And so she has had a good example set and she's got a huge work.

Sue Davies: 00:50:41

Yeah, she just, yeah, she's, she's just, she's like a mini version of me but with more mouth, which is great and I'm always very proud of her.

Sue Davies: 00:50:50

But anyway, anyway, refinement though, so refinement is all about redefining retirement and purpose for women generally.

Sue Davies: 00:51:00

So as salon owners and professionals, how can we kind of incorporate this concept and give like a more fulfilling and purpose driven career path for themselves and for their teams as they go into that later stage of life.

Sue Davies: 00:51:13

Do you think there's a, there's going to be like a way we can just make it all work brilliantly?

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:18

Yeah, I absolutely do.

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:19

I mean, the refinement came from, from a piece of research that I did at the beginning of this year that looked at women's lived experience over 55.

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:28

And I was quite staggered, sue, at the amount of discrimination that we still face.

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:33

So there are high street banks that will not Open a business bank account for somebody if they're over 60.

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:39

They will certainly not open a business bank account if you're over 60 and you're single and your likelihood of getting a business business bank loan if you're over, well then.

Sue Davies: 00:51:49

Well, if you're in the beauty industry, you've got even less chance because we've actually been experiencing hair of beauty businesses are having their bank accounts closed.

Wendy Garcia: 00:51:56

So you just think to yourself, this is a nonsense, isn't it?

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:00

In this day and age.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:01

Plus the fact that we can't legally retire now.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:04

Certainly for me, I can't legally retire until I'm 67 in order to get my pension.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:09

And of course in my lifetime that will shift to 70.

Sue Davies: 00:52:12

Yeah, so.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:13

So we're already, we know that women are having to work longer, we are already living longer, but we need to be doing that with some feeling of control.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:23

Not that we feel as though we're being, you know, kettled into doing that, but actually that we have some of that control.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:29

And really that's where refinement came from.

Sue Davies: 00:52:32

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:32

And what I wanted to do was create a movement that, that talked about this, that opened it up, that challenged some of these stereotypes and not just took them sitting down really.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:44

And so refinement was born and we launched last week to absolute rave reviews.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:53

I thought it was going to be a few women who wanted to do a bit of networking.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:56

It's turned into a global organization.

Wendy Garcia: 00:52:59

So we've got people, but it's going to.

Sue Davies: 00:53:01

Wendy, it's got you at the front.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:02

It's just fabulous.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:04

I just love it.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:05

We've got people from Europe wanting to come and be ambassador.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:08

It's just brilliant, brilliant.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:09

But for me it's because if you get a group of women in a room then, then expect change to happen.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:17

Because we're not talkers, are we?

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:19

Well, we are, but we do is as well.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:22

And so one of the things that I sort of was fired up about was really to say we've got all of this expertise, what should be we'll be doing with it.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:31

hat we're about to launch for: 2025

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:57

And so we match them together.

Wendy Garcia: 00:53:59

Now this isn't the same as coaching and we want to be really really clear about that, because mentoring is a two way street.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:08

If you are a mentor, you will get as much from the relationship as you give when you are mentoring someone.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:17

And the reason for that is that what mentoring does is it brings about insight through conversation.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:23

So you have conversations, you talk about things, you, you problem solve, you're curious.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:31

And as a result of that, not only do you learn about how to solve that problem, but you learn about the person that you're working with and you learn a lot about yourself.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:41

And what I see in with women who enter into these sort of mentoring relationships is that how much their own confidence grows because they suddenly start to see themselves through a different lens.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:53

They start to value all of this transferable skill and knowledge that they have.

Wendy Garcia: 00:54:58

And for me, if I look at your industry, it's singularly the thing that I don't see.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:04

I don't see mentorship.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:09

It's an old concept, it's not new.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:11

It's been around for decades.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:13

Yeah, but as long as you know how to mentor, as long as you've done a little bit of trying, doesn't need to be, but you know, it's not a big thing.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:21

As long as you understand the mechanism of what a mentoring relationship is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:26

What you get is this transfer of wisdom from someone who's been there and done and got the t shirt to somebody who may need that information in order to go off and, and carve their own path.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:39

But the thing that comes back is that recognition and that appreciation and that respect for where you, you've come from.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:49

And it's an incredibly nurturing relationship.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:52

But it gives so much to both parties.

Wendy Garcia: 00:55:56

And I just think that you have, with an older population of female in your industry, you are ripe to do this sort of stuff because you've got so much to give and it's not done in a direct, corrective way in terms of you're not taking an 18 year old and pontificating to them and whatever.

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:21

It's much more of an equal relationship.

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:24

But it's about curiosity.

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:25

It's saying, what do you struggle with?

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:28

How would you do that?

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:29

Why don't you think that would work?

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:31

And it is about asking questions.

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:34

Because through questions, people find their own solutions.

Sue Davies: 00:56:39

Absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 00:56:39

And that is far more powerful than having somebody tell you what to do and you just go off and do it.

Sue Davies: 00:56:45

You know what, Wendy, I absolutely love that, the wisdom bridge.

Sue Davies: 00:56:47

Because we.

Sue Davies: 00:56:48

It's funny, I've been having conversations for probably the last year with people about the generation gap that we've got and it is, it is like a huge chasm and we as the older sort of the white tights brigade, age group of therapists and hit and in hair as well.

Sue Davies: 00:57:07

There's.

Sue Davies: 00:57:07

There is this, there is this big group of us that need to hand down the keys of the industry and in between us there's sort of like, you know, we've got like all of the, the next ones down from us.

Sue Davies: 00:57:20

What are they?

Sue Davies: 00:57:20

The jet?

Sue Davies: 00:57:20

No, what are they?

Sue Davies: 00:57:21

The millennials after us, aren't they?

Sue Davies: 00:57:22

Yeah, the Millennials are kind of.

Sue Davies: 00:57:24

They kind of.

Sue Davies: 00:57:25

Because they've got a foot in both camps, haven't they?

Sue Davies: 00:57:27

So they sort of.

Sue Davies: 00:57:28

And they, they feel quite okay.

Sue Davies: 00:57:31

But then we've got this, this wonderful group of like the, like the Gen Z's coming through that have gone through so much through their formative years, going through Covid and then you know, coming out into a world where everyone's like, got no money and everything's a bit tight and a bit, everyone's bit still fractious from COVID and their social skills are not quite as, as honed as ours were perhaps because they've had that social whole world taken away from them for a couple of years.

Sue Davies: 00:57:57

Years.

Sue Davies: 00:57:58

And there's.

Sue Davies: 00:57:58

And they face so many different challenges to anything we've ever been through and trying to communicate with them, like you were saying, like with some of these younger people, they really, really struggle with that communication.

Sue Davies: 00:58:10

And whatever we do, we're quite aware that we can come across quite patronizing because we're older and we're just going to tell them what to do.

Sue Davies: 00:58:17

So that wisdom bridge thing is just such a lovely way and maybe it's something that we can.

Sue Davies: 00:58:22

Yeah, maybe we should sort of have a chat about trying to work something like that into the industry somewhere because it really is.

Sue Davies: 00:58:28

That's the useful thing.

Sue Davies: 00:58:29

And we've, we've got to try and find some kind of parity where we have disparity because there is this massive, massive gap between what we know and need to hand down and, and I don't know that the third, like, you know, I don't know yet that the Millennials are kind of, they don't.

Sue Davies: 00:58:47

I suppose the reality of it hasn't hit them yet.

Sue Davies: 00:58:49

We can see because our, the end of our career is coming.

Sue Davies: 00:58:52

We can see that there's this, that we need to hand it on to somebody and we need to pass that.

Wendy Garcia: 00:58:57

I think, I think what we're going to find as well is in the, certainly in the next few years, not just from Economic necessity, but also from a fulfillment point of view is I think we're going to see lots of women unretire.

Wendy Garcia: 00:59:10

So I think we're going to see people who want a second act enterprise of some sort.

Sue Davies: 00:59:16

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:59:17

And actually your industry's ideal to do some of that stuff because it's, you know, it's scalable, it's manageable.

Sue Davies: 00:59:23

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:59:23

But I think the thing that women of our age bring to any business situation is that we get resilience in a way that younger generations just don't.

Sue Davies: 00:59:33

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 00:59:35

And so if you've got that relationship where you've got people want, willing to share their expertise, ask questions, help people to discover what they need to do next, where their resilience sits, where their talents is.

Wendy Garcia: 00:59:49

If you've got somebody doing that, it's a far more nurturing and productive relationship than paying a coach to tell you to go off and do this and then go off and do that and whatever.

Sue Davies: 01:00:03

Yeah, we need to, it's like as, as the older generation, we kind of need to find out because they don't, they're not our natural ideal client, are they?

Sue Davies: 01:00:11

They.

Sue Davies: 01:00:12

In business terms.

Sue Davies: 01:00:14

And so we need to, we feels like the onus is on us to work out how we need to communicate because we want them to do well, we want them to succeed, but it's just we've got to learn a different language because their understanding of tech and the world is so, so different to ours.

Sue Davies: 01:00:31

le that were born in like the: 1920

Sue Davies: 01:00:39

You know.

Wendy Garcia: 01:00:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Wendy Garcia: 01:00:40

But, but you're right because in, in a mentoring relationship that's exactly what happens that you will learn as a mentor if you've got all of this stuff to give in terms of communication, in terms of connecting with people, creating your own tribe, all of that sort of stuff, what will come back through that conversation is how to use technology to do.

Wendy Garcia: 01:01:00

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:01:00

How to use tick tock.

Wendy Garcia: 01:01:02

So it's this, it's, it's a wonderful two way relationship where both parties, when it's done well, where both parties really, really benefit.

Wendy Garcia: 01:01:13

And it is a fantastic nurturing relationship that does, is not, is not governed or shaped anyway by the age difference.

Sue Davies: 01:01:24

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:01:24

Because it uses different rules.

Sue Davies: 01:01:27

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:01:27

And you know what?

Sue Davies: 01:01:28

And I'm just kind of thinking of like I can remember, remember probably years ago watching Blue Peter when I was a kid and you know that they'd send young children into care Homes to go and be nice to old people.

Sue Davies: 01:01:40

But I so remember it is still in my head now, clearly all these years later.

Sue Davies: 01:01:44

It resonates still.

Sue Davies: 01:01:45

But that whole thing of like the joy that the older people get from having those young people with them and it does literally refire them and it does give them, you know, that they feel their value and they feel they still have something.

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:00

Right.

Sue Davies: 01:02:00

And, and yet, you know, and the kids are learning, you know, I mean I can remember then, you know, they were learning about the Second World War or the First World War, whatever it was, because it was a lot of veterans or stuff that were talking to them.

Sue Davies: 01:02:11

But that, but you know, even learning that and you know, the learning the values or the like lack of value of war, you know, is probably resonated with those kids and they probably still remember those conversations and that that passing of knowledge from generation to generation has got to continue in some.

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:27

It's absolutely critical.

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:29

You know, I often say if I was a Ming vase, I'd be absolutely priceless.

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:33

Why should that change?

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:35

Because I'm flesh and blood.

Sue Davies: 01:02:36

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:02:40

But talking of care homes, can we touch on your wonderful career as an author?

Sue Davies: 01:02:49

Because it's not something I've never asked you.

Sue Davies: 01:02:50

I've always complimented you on your books since I first started reading them.

Sue Davies: 01:02:54

But how long have you been writing for?

Sue Davies: 01:02:56

Is it something you've always done?

Wendy Garcia: 01:02:58

No, it's something I've always wanted to do.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:00

So.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:00

So when I was a little kid, my mum, at the beginning of the six week school holidays, I had two sisters and my mum used to say, you're the easiest one to deal with.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:09

She used to take me to Warsaw.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:11

I was born and brought up in Warsaw.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:12

She used to take me to Warsaw market, there was a big Toy Story store on the corner and she used to buy me a stack of colored exercise books and a pack of pens and she could sit me in the corner for the six weeks and I would be made up because I have always been a storyteller, I've always written stories and, and it's something that I always wanted to do.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:33

But people of my background and my generation and my age and my gender, you know, the thought of going to university to become a writer was just.

Sue Davies: 01:03:43

Oh absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:03:44

I wasn't allowed to be an archaeologist.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:45

Yeah, it was never going to happen, never going to happen.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:48

And then I, I did through whole rake of stuff, became a coach and I've been coaching women for years and saying to them, you've got to go off and follow your dream.

Wendy Garcia: 01:03:57

And it just occurred to me that how can you do that and say that if you're not prepared to do the same thing?

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:04

So in: 2018

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:09

Would put my business into mothballs, sell the house, move into the middle of nowhere in the middle of the Staffordshire countryside.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:16

And I gave myself two years to write and publish my first book.

Sue Davies: 01:04:19

Wow.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:20

And I just did it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:22

And.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:22

Oh, my God, I had so much fun doing it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:25

And I think we were about.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:27

I think we were about six months in when Covid hit.

Sue Davies: 01:04:29

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:30

So there really was no excuse then.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:32

I really just needed to nail down and do it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:36

And I was.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:37

I just was able to let go of all of this stuff and write.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:42

And I absolutely adore it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:44

It is.

Wendy Garcia: 01:04:45

It really scratches an itch that I have.

Sue Davies: 01:04:49

And so do you find that your career and all of this, because when you've worked in a lot of big corporate places and you've also had your own business, you've.

Sue Davies: 01:04:58

You've done a lot, Wendy.

Sue Davies: 01:05:00

So do you find that that informs your writing and do equally, you now find that your writing informs your business?

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:08

Yeah, it absolutely does.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:09

Because the single common theme of that is people is people in relationships.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:14

And so in the.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:16

One of the reasons I started to write the book was, the first book was that we'd been through three quite traumatic examples of older relatives being diagnosed and then living and dying with dementia.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:31

And what struck me was actually what a scary time it is.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:37

Because the quality of information, if you've got somebody who's newly diagnosed, the quality of information that is out there is dreadful.

Sue Davies: 01:05:44

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:44

And you are left to your own devices to deal with this.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:47

You're losing the person in front of you.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:49

Degree by degree, day by day, they change.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:53

And there isn't anywhere that you can go for that sort of help.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:56

Help.

Wendy Garcia: 01:05:56

And these easy to find you.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:00

You know, if you're lucky, you come across the right people at the right time, but it isn't guaranteed that you will.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:06

And so.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:08

And it's an awful time because you go through a massive guilt while you're going through all of this, trying to do the best for your.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:16

Your loved one and them not seeing that.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:19

And so.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:20

And.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:21

And there are also.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:21

There are quite.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:22

Quite funny times that you have as well.

Sue Davies: 01:06:24

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:25

And I wanted to write something that not only was entertaining to read, but that actually, through people that were going through this experience, a lifeline to say it isn't all doom and gloom, there are things that you can do and so woven into the stories which are set in a retirement home for ex MI5 and XMI6 agents, some of whom are.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:47

Have got dementia.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:48

Are some real practical things about how you manage somebody with dementia?

Sue Davies: 01:06:52

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:06:53

In the first book it talks about the fact that there's somebody who's refusing to take his medication because he's the Prime Minister of England and nobody's taking him seriously.

Sue Davies: 01:07:03

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:04

And so in that little scene, it shows you the way that the staff have to deal with that so that they don't aggravate and extend his anxiety.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:13

Anxiety actually.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:15

They get him to take the medication that he needs to, to stay healthy and keep alive.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:20

And there are lots of little vignettes throughout all of the books that do that because I just think that if you are in that situation, you learn more if you're enjoying yourself.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:30

So if I can write a story that's entertaining and informative, I'm more than willing to do that.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:35

So it really is about the quality of those relationships.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:38

It's about the dynamics of relationships and how they work.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:42

And so I pour all of that into the stories.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:46

But then sometimes those characters take on a life of their own and they do things that I.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:53

I'm quite surprised when I write it down.

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:55

I think, did I just think of that?

Wendy Garcia: 01:07:57

Because it's not the sort of thing I would have thought of.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:00

And, and it's because you're seeing the world through somebody else's eyes.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:03

And that's the stuff then that I bring back into the business because it reminds me that it doesn't matter how competent you are, doesn't matter how skilled you are, you never have all of the answers.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:16

And, and it is about listening and observing and asking questions if you want to solve a problem.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:22

You'll never do that in isolation.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:24

And so it's sort of that, that is reflected back into the business work that I do.

Sue Davies: 01:08:29

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:08:29

Is I just, I just love, love the fact as well that it kind of recognizes, like you say, like there's a, there's a lot of explanation around dementia and a lot of older, you know, like later life conditions.

Sue Davies: 01:08:42

Used to, They've all got later life conditions, haven't they?

Sue Davies: 01:08:44

One thing or another.

Sue Davies: 01:08:46

But also I think that the thing I love about it is just that they're still so able and, you know, they're still, they've still got all their wits.

Sue Davies: 01:08:54

You know, obviously the ones that don't have dementia have got their wits about them.

Wendy Garcia: 01:08:58

Yeah, they have.

Sue Davies: 01:08:58

And, and that they're still able to do all these like really high functioning things that save the world.

Sue Davies: 01:09:04

Kind of thing.

Sue Davies: 01:09:05

And I do think it's, I just think it's so heartwarming to have like an older generation recognized.

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:12

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:09:13

And even because, I mean, you know, there's, there's a lot of characters that I can't think of who the character is now.

Sue Davies: 01:09:17

My brain's just so bad with names and things nowadays.

Sue Davies: 01:09:20

But there's one of the characters who's gone there because she knows that she's going to have a problem.

Sue Davies: 01:09:24

I can't for one, I think it was in book two.

Sue Davies: 01:09:25

Was it in book two?

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:27

It was the, she was the, the head of.

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:30

Yes, Celia Browning.

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:31

That was, it was the head of, of the security services.

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:35

She was the Director General of security services.

Sue Davies: 01:09:38

And she went in early, didn't she?

Sue Davies: 01:09:40

Because she knew.

Sue Davies: 01:09:40

Yeah, I think that kind of recognition of her age that she, that she could have a problem, but she wanted to make sure everything was safe and secure and all of that kind of, of, you know, that forward planning isn't it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:54

And you know what I do think?

Wendy Garcia: 01:09:55

I think that one of the misnomers around dementia is that once you get that diagnosis, people just think that you have dementia all of the time, but you don't.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:04

So dementia is a phased.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:08

Some forms of dementia are phased conditions.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:11

So there are sometimes when they absolutely think that they are, you know, a different person in a different world in a different era, and there are times when they know exactly what's happening to them, they understand where they are, they're as sharp as a peen.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:26

And you as the onlooker never know when that's going to happen.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:30

And so you cannot treat them in, in a consistent way because you don't.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:37

You have to respond to the way their condition is at that time.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:41

And I see people with dementia who can function at a very high level for large quantities of time.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:47

You know, my own experience, we.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:49

It took us three years to get a dementia diagnosis because my mother in law was absolutely masterful at being able to hold it together for 15 minute jogs.

Wendy Garcia: 01:10:59

So if we took her to the doctors because she was having a particular problem and we started to talk about the memory issues, she would absolutely muster everything.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:08

And so the doctor could never say see it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:11

And she had convinced him, she gaslighted him into believing that it actually it was in our heads, not, not hers.

Sue Davies: 01:11:18

Wow.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:19

And it was only when there was a real crisis of her condition that he said, oh my God, I had no idea.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:25

And I said, happy community for three years.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:28

And she has gaslighted you for those three Years.

Wendy Garcia: 01:11:31

Sometimes they function at a very high.

Sue Davies: 01:11:33

Level and I think as well, actually in interest and.

Sue Davies: 01:11:36

And just as we're talking about this, I'm just having recollections of a couple of clients that I've had over the years where two actually, not long before I closed my salon, one who I know was confirmed and one who I think.

Sue Davies: 01:11:50

I'm not sure if she's been confirmed or not now, but we could see the signs of dementia as the person sitting.

Sue Davies: 01:11:57

They'd come to us every two weeks to have their nails done.

Sue Davies: 01:11:59

They'd be sat with us for an hour and a half.

Sue Davies: 01:12:01

You know them and, you know, you're seeing subtle differences and it may be that you're.

Sue Davies: 01:12:07

And it's very difficult because as a professional, you know, you don't know their family.

Sue Davies: 01:12:11

You can't.

Sue Davies: 01:12:11

It's not that you can sort of phone the husband and go, actually, did you realize.

Sue Davies: 01:12:14

Or their daughter or whatever.

Sue Davies: 01:12:17

And it's something that, as a.

Sue Davies: 01:12:19

As a therapist, whether you're hair.

Sue Davies: 01:12:21

Whether you're in hair or whether you're in beauty or be like massage, whatever area of the salon industry, because we are a human industry, we do come across these situations.

Sue Davies: 01:12:32

And I think it's interesting how.

Sue Davies: 01:12:36

And maybe there's a whole top 10 guide into how to manage your clients with dementia.

Sue Davies: 01:12:42

I don't know.

Sue Davies: 01:12:43

But it does make me think about it as we're talking about it, because we experience this as therapists that we do have these mainly often women coming into our premises that we can see the subtle changes and trying to get them, you know, and we.

Sue Davies: 01:12:58

And we're quite helpless in that situation.

Sue Davies: 01:13:00

We can't actually do anything to.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:02

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:13:03

To assist them in any way whatsoever.

Sue Davies: 01:13:05

We just have to gradually watch them deteriorate.

Sue Davies: 01:13:07

And quite often they won't tell us that they've been, like, diagnosed because I think it's a thing of, like the same.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:14

Yeah.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:14

They really don't want to admit it to themselves very often.

Sue Davies: 01:13:18

It's very, very difficult.

Sue Davies: 01:13:19

But.

Sue Davies: 01:13:20

Yeah, but the books are absolutely fantastic.

Sue Davies: 01:13:23

What are they called?

Sue Davies: 01:13:23

What's the first ones people can get?

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:25

So there are.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:25

It's called the Secret series.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:27

So there's Keeping Secrets, which is the first one.

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:30

The second one is Hidden Secrets and the third one is State Secrets.

Sue Davies: 01:13:33

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:13:34

And what's number four going to be called?

Sue Davies: 01:13:35

Have we got a name for it yet?

Wendy Garcia: 01:13:37

Yes, well, the working title, Exclusive Chinese Whispers.

Sue Davies: 01:13:42

Oh, I know, I'm so looking forward to it.

Sue Davies: 01:13:45

But.

Sue Davies: 01:13:46

So finally, Wendy, what do you think is the key to staying Relevant and having a fulfilled career as you age in a very changing industry that is just like trying to stay up to date.

Sue Davies: 01:13:59

And it is very, very difficult.

Sue Davies: 01:14:01

So what do you think is the key to sort of maintaining that relevance as you age?

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:05

I think it's absolutely learning.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:07

I think it's having an open mind and learning new things all of the time.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:11

I've always been a lifelong learner, right from the moment, you know, right from when I was a very young child.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:17

I'm intensely curious and I always want to learn.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:20

And I do believe that we don't grow old.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:24

I think that we get old when we stop growing.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:27

And so for me, it's about keeping current is the key.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:32

You know, if there are new techniques, if there's new technologies, if there's new things that we can be doing by learning those things, by being able to.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:40

To take them on board and making the decision about whether we're going to implement them or not in our business or how we're going to implement them.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:46

Just that those transformations, even if they're only on a small scale, they're the things that keep us current.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:52

They're the things that keep us in our.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:54

In.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:54

In the game.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:55

But more importantly, they're the things that keep our minds active.

Wendy Garcia: 01:14:59

And that is absolutely critical.

Sue Davies: 01:15:02

Yeah, I think it's.

Sue Davies: 01:15:03

And I do.

Sue Davies: 01:15:03

I think it's social.

Sue Davies: 01:15:04

We have.

Sue Davies: 01:15:04

We do have to maintain our knowledge and learning all the way through.

Sue Davies: 01:15:09

Because I think, like, you're always.

Sue Davies: 01:15:11

Even if it's just sort of learning how to adapt to a situation because, you know, like, with me and I'm doing massage and stuff now, like, I get really bad pain in my hand.

Sue Davies: 01:15:20

So I'm so.

Sue Davies: 01:15:20

Even, even down to that, you know, I'm still learning now how I could use my hand again and how I can.

Sue Davies: 01:15:26

How, you know, is that.

Sue Davies: 01:15:27

Is there supplements I can take?

Sue Davies: 01:15:29

Is there a way I can maneuver my hand in a different way that's going to be better for me.

Wendy Garcia: 01:15:32

Exactly.

Sue Davies: 01:15:33

Actually might actually enhance my client's experience because I'm not pulling my hand off all the time because my hand hurts.

Sue Davies: 01:15:38

You know, there's.

Sue Davies: 01:15:39

There's so many, you know, and learning doesn't have to be sitting reading a 400 page.

Wendy Garcia: 01:15:43

No, no, it doesn't.

Wendy Garcia: 01:15:44

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:15:44

Can be as simple as, like, I need to move my hand in a different way.

Wendy Garcia: 01:15:48

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:15:48

Because it's still any.

Sue Davies: 01:15:49

Anything that our brain's taking a new thought process, we're learning and it never, ever stops.

Wendy Garcia: 01:15:55

But, yeah, absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:15:57

So is there, Is there anything else you think that we need, that we need to add.

Sue Davies: 01:16:00

I think we've probably covered.

Sue Davies: 01:16:01

Covered an awful lot.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:03

Oh, gosh, yeah, we have covered an awful lot.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:05

If you are entering that, that next stage of your life, that second act enterprise sort of era, so you're over 50 relay and you are interested in the work of refinement, then you can go and have a look at our website, www.refinement.uk.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:24

because we're looking for women who have had a life to come and participate both in the mentoring schemes and the other work programs that we, we have as well, because we have so much left to give and we shouldn't see it as a period of decline at all.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:43

We should see it as a period of freedom.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:46

To have choice, to live life with a purpose, to be able to contribute and to give back are all really, really important things for us.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:54

And we are best placed to do that as we pass that key age of 50.

Wendy Garcia: 01:16:59

So if you're interested in anything that we've talked about today, then feel free to check us out.

Sue Davies: 01:17:05

And I do think as well that anyone in the salon industry, if you are interested in creating something like the Wisdom Bridge, so we can hand down our knowledge into the younger generations that are following behind us, then get in touch.

Sue Davies: 01:17:20

And whether you reach out to me or reach out to Wendy, and I'm sure, sure we can try and put something.

Sue Davies: 01:17:24

I don't know, I don't know.

Sue Davies: 01:17:25

Wendy and I can have a chat and see if there's something we can do that can kind of assimilate into the industry a little bit.

Sue Davies: 01:17:31

And I've.

Sue Davies: 01:17:31

I realized a little while ago, Wendy, I was so busy looking at you and your lovely face that I missed the fact that the quote was there the whole time.

Wendy Garcia: 01:17:37

It was.

Sue Davies: 01:17:38

Yes, I saw it just now and was like, I can't believe I didn't see that.

Wendy Garcia: 01:17:43

Don't worry about it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:17:44

We are on a mission because we have to redefine what retirement looks like for women because the existing definitions are crap.

Wendy Garcia: 01:17:54

They don't, they don't service us.

Wendy Garcia: 01:17:56

They don't reflect who we are and we need to change that.

Wendy Garcia: 01:18:00

So refinement is for women who want to rock but not in a chair.

Sue Davies: 01:18:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Sue Davies: 01:18:05

I'm not rocking in the chair in the corner, maybe.

Sue Davies: 01:18:09

Anyway, thank you so much, Wendy.

Sue Davies: 01:18:11

You stay there and we're just gonna, we'll finish up here and then we'll have another chat before we disappear for the day.

Sue Davies: 01:18:17

And thank you so much, Wendy, for coming on.

Sue Davies: 01:18:19

On and.

Sue Davies: 01:18:20

Yeah, and Wendy's details are on the screen, as you can see, and they'll be in the show notes as well.

Sue Davies: 01:18:24

So thank you so much, Wendy for coming and sharing.

Wendy Garcia: 01:18:26

Thanks for inviting me.

Wendy Garcia: 01:18:27

I've really enjoyed it.

Wendy Garcia: 01:18:28

Thanks a lot.

Sue Davies: 01:18:29

Wonderful.

Sue Davies: 01:18:30

That's great.

Sue Davies: 01:18:30

Thank you so much.

Sue Davies: 01:18:32

So that was Wendy Garkars and I've known Wendy for a few years and she whenever I have anything to do with her, I always learn so much.

Sue Davies: 01:18:41

And I really hope you found a lot of value in what she had to say.

Sue Davies: 01:18:44

You know, just some of that advice that she was giving about, you know, the fact that you're holding that tech in your hand, if you're holding a phone in your hand, you are holding something more powerful than they landed on the moon with.

Sue Davies: 01:18:55

And that in itself is just one of the big takeaways from today.

Sue Davies: 01:18:58

And also the spraying and praying and the landing and expanding, they're phrases I'm going to take away with me from today as well.

Sue Davies: 01:19:06

And also the Wisdom Bridge.

Sue Davies: 01:19:09

And I'm going to, I will be having a chat with Wendy about how we can perhaps utilize this and bring it across and either borrow the idea or work with Wendy to allow the wisdom that those of us that are more experienced within the industry hold and how we can pass that back down.

Sue Davies: 01:19:28

Because that's something that if you, if you know me, you know the magazine and the message of the Southern Education Journal was always leave the ladder down.

Sue Davies: 01:19:36

And it's something I'm so passionate about doing and I know that huge numbers of us that have been in the industry 20 plus years are really passionate about doing so maybe that's going to be the new way forward is something along the lines of the Wisdom Bridge.

Sue Davies: 01:19:50

And we will see.

Sue Davies: 01:19:52

Anyway, that's it for today, so thank you very, very much for joining me and I will look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

Sue Davies: 01:19:59

Bye for now.

Sue Davies: 01:20:03

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Sue Davies: 01:20:06

If you've enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe, leave a review and share with fellow industry professionals that you think may enjoy the show.

Sue Davies: 01:20:13

Links and further information can be found on the Show Notes or on my website, www.suedavies.org.

Sue Davies: 01:20:21

here you can also find some downloadable free guides that you may find of use.

Sue Davies: 01:20:25

You can also hear from me and join the Inspiring Salon Professionals community on my Facebook group.

Sue Davies: 01:20:31

Thanks again and see you next time.

Sue Davies: 01:20:33

Bye for now.