Navigating The Salon Industry as a Solo Pro: The Importance of a Support System

Sue Davies: 00:00:00

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals. The podcast that allows every therapist, nail tech and stylist to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams.

Each episode we'll be looking at a different area of the industry and along the way I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who'll be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career. I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional. Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Speaker B: 00:00:33

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Sue Davies: 00:01:29

Hi there and welcome to this week's Inspiring Salon Professionals. This week I'm joined by my good friend Sam Blake and we are going to be talking about solo working.

There's been quite a lot, we've had a lot of conversations and we're always saying we should just do a podcast on this because there is so much to unpack around. There's a lot of positives around working as a solo. Huge numbers of working solo low nowadays and so many people.

However, there's an awful lot of downsides to it and we.

Yesterday there was a really big downside that we both saw on Facebook and it made both of us react quite protectively towards this person and we just, we said, you know what, let's just jump on where I'm doing a few extra episodes I hadn't really planned. I've got, I've got a bit of flexibility in what I can do and who can come on. So we decided just to jump on this morning and do a quick podcast.

So we are going to be talking about.

Yeah, about solo working and how, although it can be a great way of working, how it can also impact you in ways that you don't necessarily think are going to impact you. So if you don't know Sam Blake already, Sam is the safer salon geek and she does a huge amount of work around health and safety compliance.

But also in is a go to for well being and mental health support and all those kinds of things. And especially if you're a solo worker, that kind of thing can really, really impact you.

So let's jump onto the podcast and I will catch up with you on the other side and let's just. I'm sure it's going to be an interesting conversation. Anyone that knows me and Sam knows we both like talking a lot.

But I have got a client due, hence if you're watching on video, you will see I am in my massage uniform. And so we have a very defined timeline which is a good for everybody listening.

So I'll see you on the other side and yeah, let's have a great conversation. Hello, Sam Blake. It's been a while since you've been on and, and I was just saying in the intro that we were having a chat yesterday.

Well, we've been having, we have a lot of chats and this subject comes up a huge amount and I know it's something that you are very passionate about.

And so today we're going to talk about the, the perils of being solo really, because although it is an amazing opportunity, you can make a lot more money if you're solo and all that kind of stuff. If you can get your clients and that's another whole thing.

But, but when you can't get your clients and things aren't going how you want them to go, sometimes it's a really, really lonely place. And that's what Sam and I talk about quite a lot. So we just thought this was a bit impromptu, just like, yeah, let's just jump on and do the podcast.

So we haven't really got much of a backbone to this other than we want to talk about what Sam is doing around this area, what I do around this area and yeah, just kind of letting people know that it's okay to not be okay.

So, and also if you just, just, if you just do give a quick intro because if people don't know who you are, just give a, a brief minute or two because we are, we are time restricted today.

Sam Blake: 00:04:37

Oh, brief. Okay.

educator who decided very pre: 2020

So I do all the boring but necessary, all of the compliance stuff, the legal and all of that.

But I've always had a bit of a maverick brain, so I kind of look at the whole topic in probably slightly different way to most and how it can be applied and impacts solo and selling businesses.

Sue Davies: 00:05:18

Yeah, well, it's, it's every salon business, isn't it?

And I think it doesn't matter whether you are a solo working mobile or at home, whether you're a solo rent in space, whether you are a salon owner that works with whatever model, or whether you're a small business, like a small product brand, anything really like you help everybody. That's salon sector, no matter what academy owners. Because it is, it's, it can be a very difficult place to be.

Sam Blake: 00:05:43

You know what, sue, that's the hilarious thing. When people say niche down. I'm kind of like, well, yeah, I've niche down.

This is my topic and it, it applies to everybody, whether you're an academy trainer or whether you, you know, are a brand or even down to the person working, picking the product in a warehouse. Yeah, you know, it's, that is what the topics are.

Sue Davies: 00:06:06

Safety Factories at Work Act: 1974

But that's kind of what everyone's go to is for health and safety, isn't it? It's like they've all seen that notice on the side.

They have to have it there as the employer or as the business owner or they have to read it as the employee. And that's kind of where most people's kind of everyday knowledge of health and safety comes in.

But what we're going to talk about today is a whole different level of health and safety because it's about the person and it's industry knowledge, it's industry.

Sam Blake: 00:06:46

Industry historical branding, let's call it of health and safety versus actually in, in my other world, if I was out of the industry and working as a health and safety advisor, what my job role would be there. But then I say, and then some.

So yeah, it's, I'm here in this position because in part of the journey that I've traveled through my career and the lack and the feelings and the lack Is it's just the lack of knowledge, knowing. I mean, I put a post out today, didn't I, about me, sort of about 20 years ago, I think, reflecting in salon of.

Of who was that woman, who was that young woman? And if she knew then what she knows now, you know, would she have felt differently?

As a salon manager, I can remember feeling a tremendous amount of pressure, having a team, not really having in my first sort of roles, any training. It was just a case of your personality fitted so you got on with it and reflecting back as we do.

Sue Davies: 00:08:00

Yeah, occasionally as we mature.

Sam Blake: 00:08:03

As we mature, then we reflect back and, you know, I get the niggle in the knuckle and my wrist isn't quite doing what it should do. And I think about where did the anxiety come from at certain points? Because I've got a high coping mechanism to my detriment on that personality.

And I was always a very red personality in salon. It was very, go, get in, get on with it, do your best, do your best, learn everything.

And there was never that outlet of somebody saying, whoa, slow yourself, look after yourself. Yeah. And it. That's just one of many, many, many reasons why I kind of am creating and doing what I do now.

So, yeah, I did the consultancy thing for a few years, not to be rude to any of my clients, but it's actually quite boring because it's repetitive form filling, trying to extract information out of people is horrendously difficult because everybody's working either in their business, on their business. So it's. It is considered the tick box exercise.

And in part, again, that's why I don't do that, but also because, and I say this a lot to you, my ikigai, I'm an educator. If I'm not training, if I'm not giving people knowing knowledge, I call them thought provokers. You know, personally, I'm not fulfilled.

Sue Davies: 00:09:30

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:09:31

So, yeah, I think this podcast is really a bit of reflection on journeys as well as, you know, you looking on social media and you're seeing newbies. And that's why I love you'll leave the ladder down concept. And I will quote that because there's no gatekeeping it for certain, certain things.

You've got to make a living. Yeah. But you, you've got to be there as the, the mentor, as the pro to kind of guide new people coming into the industry as well, I think.

Sue Davies: 00:09:59

ssion based back in the early: 2000

But that was how. And I had, I used to have it of mobile and I used to be a pamper events and stuff and I had a lot of.

But everywhere I went I kind of had people around me and I think now that model has changed so much and with the, with the advent of, of home cabins and people converting garages, all that kind of stuff and whatever. All the stuff that happened in Covid people have moved away from an employed model and even.

And it may be so much a self employed commission based how I used to be working in that space things have changed an awful lot and we now have.

I think the last NHBF survey was about 65 or 67% self employed solo and many of those are solo workers and that means that there's a whole way of working that was not there years ago There was very few people I, I know only a few people that were solo working from home like 20 years ago there was not that many people and now that's the main way people are working.

And so that causes people to have a lot of anxiety, a lot of negativity in their heads and I think that this is what we see in that post I mentioned in the intro.

We saw a post yesterday where a young therapist, I don't know how she is, I'm saying young because she's fairly new to the industry so then making, making bad assumptions there.

But a person, a woman who's new to the industry and is in massage and she asked a question, I responded, my comment got laughed at which irritated me and I mentioned this to Sam.

Sam went off and looked at the message and Sam was then aggravated because there was a lot of mansplaining at this girl and there was a lot of really quite top of assumption.

Sam Blake: 00:12:06

There was an awful lot of assumption.

Sue Davies: 00:12:08

And it was quite toxic.

Sam Blake: 00:12:10

It was toxic. And what it was, what it was doing was not a thinking.

There's a person behind this post for one, two kind of considering what she was actually asking rather than you know, if, let's face it, if anybody's going to put the barrier up and come in and say are you qualified to do so, are you, you know it's going to be me because I'm going to say well you insured are you this, you that? But there's ways of turning around and saying things to people and it just wasn't. It, it was toxic, awful.

Horrendous actually from, from the point of view of not even the consideration of how she might feel and the fact that she was there for support in the first place.

And you see, you, well, you see a lot of that on social media, in groups and you know that I'm kind of one of these people who, if I see it, I'm just like, well, I'll take it. You know, anybody who wants to try and troll me, attack me, you know.

Sue Davies: 00:13:09

Yeah, because I know you were going right when I, when the, when this person laughed at me and I was. And like, who Just like, where did they get off? You know, would you come up to.

Sam Blake: 00:13:18

Somebody in the street at a networking event, at a professional event and turn around and say those things and haha, on somebody's post, would you do that? Because if you did, you wouldn't last 10 seconds in with a group of people because they just turn their backs and ignore you.

Sue Davies: 00:13:36

So I just need to say for context, I don't think anyone can probably hear it, but my dog's charging around because my son's just walked into the room and the dog's doing laps around his legs and I don't know if anyone can hear it.

Sam Blake: 00:13:48

I can't hear it.

Sue Davies: 00:13:53

Sound. But you just never know. But I forgot what I was going to say now.

Yeah, but that, but the, the that I'd said to you and I, I wasn't up, I was angry at the man that did that to my. Because, and I was, I'm not responding because I'm not even going down that road because it's, it's not worth my time.

But you were like, no, I'm, I'm not having this.

And, and in the end you actually, you very rightly messaged the girl and you had a chop conversation with her, by which time she was so upset she'd taken the post down.

And this happens too often and it's one of the things that we kind of want to look at today is just that, you know, is the reason that she did that post in the first place is because she hasn't got a peer network around her.

And when you're solo, not having a peer network around you, whether they're the same level as you, whether they're more experienced, whether they're the owner, whether there's an apprentice below you, whatever, whatever you are on your own, you are Missing key people around you that you use as a sounding board and as a feedback loop.

And when you don't have that support, you end up turning to Facebook groups which, or I mean it is mainly Facebook is now because you'd like this doesn't really work on Instagram in that way and it doesn't really work on LinkedIn in that way.

But Facebook groups particularly tend to be full of people that especially nowadays are solos that are just a bit stuck on something they need to do or something they need to share or something.

Sam Blake: 00:15:26

There, isn't it, it's, it's that little anxious thought, that little thing within them that's saying, am I right? I think I'm right. I know I'm right. My training says I'm right. But I just need a sounding board.

Sue Davies: 00:15:40

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:15:42

Not criticism, not to be attacked, not to be made to feel less than.

And yeah, I just, I genuinely, I mean, you know, the skin that I developed through that P word that I never mentioned anymore because of the topic that I was talking about and what I was saying and who I bought into assist and everything else and you know, the fear factor that was surrounding that, I mean that, that's just a sort of capsule example of a time.

But that did kind of ground me in, in the kind of magnification of what it can get like as a inverted influencer or person of, of interest for knowledge or what have you in the sector online. But it also showed the psychology of social media, didn't it?

And just, and that's what these groups do, that their flippant comments, flippant remarks, some helpful, some not helpful, mainly opinion based that can make the person on the other end of, of that device sit there and question everything about what they're doing, the journey that they're going on. And that sounds quite an extreme thing to say, but having been that person and listening to other people over the five years I've been doing this.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's that disconnect, isn't it? There's a screen, there's a keyboard, there's a type face and there's a disconnect between, between the person in the room.

Sue Davies: 00:17:19

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:17:20

And that's just all levels of wrong.

So in part for me doing what I'm doing and building what I'm building, you know me, you know, a lot of what I do is heart head first rather than head and I have to be reined in by the work wives and a couple of work husbands who are there who kind of go, well if it was a salon, I'd be fine.

You know, I've kind of like run many and would have a business head on but because this is such a heart led thing for me and I feel the experience, you know, I'm solo now. I'm sitting in the conservatory with my doors open, listening to the birds of me garden out there know.

And I laugh at myself because I got into a habit and it's a good habit of going out and doing a mindful moment and having a breath and getting your hands in the dirt and doing the weeding in between sitting and thinking and writing and conversing online and doing all the things that you do, having calls, making connections. Because when you look at that on the surface, that's not a lonely place to be. But actually it is because of what you're talking about.

You know, you've got your professional mode on. My husband doesn't get it, gets none of it. He's Mr. Paye, so he, he's that kind of support to a degree.

But I couldn't go and talk to him about any of this. Tried it. That didn't end well, you know.

And it's also that factor that when you're the solo setting up that you know, your partner, partner might be the activist who's building the thing and helping you source the thing and everything else. But when it comes down to the brass tacks of the. The what, why, how, how this client's making me feel. That client's booked.

They've been a bit standoffish or they've been a bit picky or someone left.

Sue Davies: 00:19:10

Me a bad review.

Sam Blake: 00:19:11

Yeah. Where do you go with all of that? And not everybody can afford business coaching.

B wants business coaching because again, a lot of the conversations I've had over the last five years is some people can see that as an additional pressure that they don't need rather than the benefits of it.

And that can come from having bad experiences and working with, with potentially people who, who aren't let's say fully trained enough to kind of coach somebody or take somebody through a mentorship. And you know, I'm not decrying those people who do that.

But part of the question when you onboard somebody is I always think looking at what their needs are like we would with a client in any other situation. And you and I know that that doesn't happen a lot. It's not a case of, okay, there's some red flags from a mental health perspective here.

And that's something that I'm very. If I talk to business coaches. I'm very open about that saying, well, what's your vetting procedure?

You know, how do you look at that person's ability to spend the amount of money that they're spending with you as a solo in particular, because, you know, they're seeking that support that you don't need to signpost them anywhere else. That's me. You know, my little thought. And you know what, what's your kind of quality and assurance there? Yeah, but I mean, the solo kind of.

Is it a faction? Do we call them a faction? The cohort, people, group?

Sue Davies: 00:20:52

It's just. They're just sort of like, you know, they're a major part of the industry now. And so I don't know if you could just see that going past behind me.

It's one of our neighbors. They've got a steam traction engine and they're clearly going. Just this chimney slowly going down. I can hear it, but you won't be able to hear it.

Speaker B: 00:21:15

It's just.

Sue Davies: 00:21:15

Yeah. Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug, chug, chugging. Oh, dear. It's brilliant. I love living in country. Yes, but I did.

But I think as well is that, you know, what, like, we.

We get back to that kind of thing of like what like, you know, coaches are fantastic and they do an amazing job for people in the right circumstances, but they aren't your peers. They're there. They're there to. To make you think and consider things. Coaches, they're there to make you look at the options in front of you.

They're not. They're not there to guide you. They are there to just open your eyes to things a little bit, aren't they? The decision always remains yours.

Mentors are there to help you and they probably are there to guide you more because they speak from experience. And that's what a mentor is, is someone that's experienced what you're now going through so they can help you and advise you in a different way. But.

But we don't have a solos and like you saying about how you work, you know, I work at home. I love being at home. You know, like we just. I'll just add the dog on my lap. You know, I like being around my dogs.

I like being and being able to walk out of my garden and do things as well and just, you know, go to back for aerobics on a Tuesday morning. It's lovely because I can worry is flexible, my time is flexible. But with that comes and I. And I think probably with how we work.

It is, it makes it more difficult because you tend to then procrastinate and get distracted and do things. Whereas if you're like, today I've got clients. So I've got a very strict timeline today and I'm very back in like today's like salon Roadhead.

And so you don't get a lot of time in between clients.

You, you are focusing on the client and you don't if like I know the person that's coming in to me today, she's an older lady, has family around her and everything, but she comes to me. She, she, I know she'll talk to me all the way through her treatment.

Sam Blake: 00:22:57

I know she download, she downloaded.

Sue Davies: 00:22:59

Just downloads.

Sam Blake: 00:23:00

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:23:00

Literally she'll have, she's got a half an hour long shell back massage booked in and I know she's going to talk to me the whole way through. Yeah, she'll arrive early, she'll leave later than she needs to.

But I don't mind because I've got flexibility in my day and she needs that download time. But consequently I then pick up all of that stuff off her. And we all know this happens to therapists. So where do I go with that?

Probably, if any, if there's anything that concerns me, I'll probably sit on a call with you, Sam, going, oh my God, that today because you're one of, you're one of my support network.

Sam Blake: 00:23:33

We call ourselves the work Wives, don't we?

Sue Davies: 00:23:36

Yeah, we're really. Yeah, we've got, we're lucky.

We have got like the work by club and there's a lot of us that all support each other because we're all going through similar journeys and some of us still treat clients, some of us don't. Some of us do other things, some of us still teach or do whatever. Like we all, we're very mixed group of people.

But if you don't have that support network, where do you go and when you have things that happen to you, like this poor girl yesterday on the forum, what happens when you, when that happens? Or if you get, if you get to a point where you don't know. And one of the things that kind of.

I was chatting with Steph Stevenson about earlier in the podcast this year.

Love that whole thing about, you know, as, as a junior, like particularly in hair and probably in, in nails, you get this more because they're very image conscious treatments and there's a, there's a, there's a very visible result at the end of a hair appointment. A very visible result at the end.

Sam Blake: 00:24:28

Of a nail appointment, same with lashes. And so.

Sue Davies: 00:24:30

Yeah, and with lashes.

Sam Blake: 00:24:31

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:24:32

And.

And that moment that that client leaves the treatment space and walks from there in a salon environment, from the moment they leave that treatment space and walk through to the reception, to the point of sale, they will pass X number of clients, X number of other therapists, other hair professionals who will go, that's nice. Oh, look at that. How did you do this? How did you do that?

And as someone that's less knowledgeable, you'll see that client will pass, that a senior stylist did or a senior therapist did, and you'll go, I want to do that. How do I do it? And this is one of the things that we're missing is that.

And this is like that part of that feedback loop and that continued learning loop. And learning doesn't have to be about qualification, it doesn't have to be about a certificate.

It's about learning on the job and enhancing the skills you've been. You've been taught through your foundation education and moving that on through gradual development.

Sam Blake: 00:25:24

Of watching other people work CPD by osmosis. So there's a lot that you pick up and you absorb without even realizing that you're doing it.

Sue Davies: 00:25:33

Yeah. And when someone says, oh, my God, look at that, I mean, I can remember I used to love painting French manicure polish. It was one of my.

I used to do it day in, day out and go, I don't know if I could do it now. I'd like to think I'd still have some element of success. But I used to do an amazing, and particularly actually an amazing American manicure.

So love an American manicure. A little bit more forgiving. But I used to love. I used to sit panty French manicure all day and people. Other clients to be, oh, my God, look at that.

Like, look at that, that's crisp and it.

Sam Blake: 00:26:04

And it.

Sue Davies: 00:26:04

That whole, you know, that you feel you've achieved something, that sense of, oh, my God. I actually, I actually do know what I'm doing.

And I think if you work on your own, you don't get that feedback from other professionals, other clients.

You get the feedback from your client who probably because they're paying you money by nature of that, is going to go, oh, thanks ever so much, that was a great job. But you don't get. You don't necessarily get that wow moment of like realizing your successes and maybe when. And when you've had.

When you've had a failure. And I heard someone, I was Doing on the radio yesterday, they were talking about bad beauty treatments or something like that, or bad mistakes.

And somebody wrote. Somebody phoned in and was like, yeah, I went and had my eyebrows waxed and the therapist, like, pulled the wax strip off and then went, oh.

And I mean, unfortunately, I've never been there, but I know people that have. And, like, she had lost half her eyebrow, which is.

Shouldn't laugh, really shouldn't laugh, but it's one of those moments when, as a professional, if you do that to somebody. Oh, then if you're on your own, where do you go with that?

Sam Blake: 00:27:10

Oh, I had a client wipe her eyes. I mean, this was very early on in my career. Wipe her eyes when she had eyelash tint on.

Because it was the type of salon where when the tint was on, you popped out to do a quick eyebrow wax. I mean, you know, I cringe now.

Sue Davies: 00:27:24

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:27:25

But didn't know any different. Came back and she got this beautiful silk shirt on. And I'm thinking, oh, there's a nice design on that that I didn't notice before.

And she'd wiped blue black tin all down the shirt. Well, I had a team around me, didn't I? And I kind of went out and went, oh, something's happened. I don't know what to do. My mum washes my clothes.

That's what I do with this.

Sue Davies: 00:27:52

I don't. You know, And I've. I've got. I've got two, mate. Two horrible ones. I had a client when I was first working in the salon and I had a client.

I was doing fiberglass nails and I'd literally. I was using back scratches, so I'd put my resin on. Did. Did my. Tim. I can't even remember which way around they went. Did my kicker, then.

Then sprayed, like, sprayed my sticker to. To do whatever it did. I can't even think what the process is anymore. I haven't done Fiber life for so long anyway. But did the process.

But of course, they're still. They're still wet. She rubbed her finger through her eye. Cyan acrylic through her eye. And I just sat and she went, oh, that's smart. Yes, it will.

Sam Blake: 00:28:36

Because that might be an understatement.

Sue Davies: 00:28:38

That's like a superglue you've just put in your eye.

Sam Blake: 00:28:41

And then.

Sue Davies: 00:28:41

So that was horrendous. And I felt so bad. And she kept going, don't worry, it's my fault. I did it. I didn't tell you to keep your hand still.

Sam Blake: 00:28:48

How. How many solo Therapists have actually got first aid training.

Sue Davies: 00:28:53

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:28:56

But.

Sue Davies: 00:28:57

But because my boss at the time was somebody who was an NVQ Level 2 and Level 3 educator in the national, and she was one of the ones that helped write the qualification. She had all her sds and everything. So we got the SDS out and we acted appropriately, but it was terrifying.

Sam Blake: 00:29:13

There's another point I'm going to bring you back to. That got the sts out.

Sue Davies: 00:29:17

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:29:17

Really? That should have been the risk assessment.

Sue Davies: 00:29:20

Well, yeah. Well, yeah, but we. Yeah, but we. We knew we needed to get the SDS out because you do tell clients, have the nails done.

Please keep your hands in front of me.

Sam Blake: 00:29:30

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:29:30

You know, and you don't think. And I think sometimes you kind of omit to tell people the obvious, don't you? Like, don't, please.

If I've just put something on your nails that's a chemical, please don't rub your eyes. You think you don't need to say those things, but clearly sometimes you do.

And I also got a bikini wax stuck once when it was when I'd not long been trained and I was in the salon on my witnesses, and I had my own salon, and it was like my other therapist had gone home for the day, who was a really experienced waxer, and I was doing a bikini wax, probably the second one I'd ever done. She got the wax stuck.

Unfortunately, she was a really good client who'd known me for a long time, and it just, like, volunteered to be one of my first bikini waxes. And it was horrendous, and I nearly died. But I was very fortunate because then I was. Once we.

We did resolve the situation, she just went home and had a long, hot bath. And. And I don't know what she did, but she resolved the situation herself because I couldn't do it.

But my wonderful cousin who worked with me, who was a very, very good waxer, I just phoned her when I got home, was like, oh, my God, you won't believe what I've just done. And she's like, okay, but now you could have done this. You could have done that. Why didn't you think about doing this?

And it's like, okay, you know what?

Sam Blake: 00:30:39

You.

Sue Davies: 00:30:40

Yeah, but it's that. But it's that feedback loop, which is what we don't have.

Sam Blake: 00:30:44

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:30:45

So anyway, what we want. One of the things we are here to talk about today, Sam, because I'm very aware that we are.

We have not got much time left, is that you are setting something up, which Is called the solo safe space.

And it's like a virtual staff room where people that are solos are everybody in the industry that feels they need a little bit of support and someone, you know of those water cooler moments where they've had a bad day and there's someone else at the water cooler and they can just go and go, oh my God, this just happened. I've just done the worst bikini wax ever. Now what do I do?

And it's a place where people that are more experienced, less experienced can share, learn and feel supported.

Sam Blake: 00:31:29

There's going to be two levels to it.

This is what I've been kind of playing around with, that there needs to be the staff room, but then there needs to be a bit of an education aspect to it.

But the primary function is that gravity grab a bit of cake moment where I'm going to be putting my mental health first aid hat on and facilitate the session. But it's based all around you and the person centered safety and being able to be supported and signposted in particular.

So I'm building a lovely group of external professionals to industry who have, you know, mental well being is the thing that they do every day. Referrals. So rather than kind of going, where do I go? Part of the structure will be anonymous.

So we'll have a monthly meeting and it is, it's going to be like sitting in the staff room. I'm going to be doing things like where's your aches and pains? So using God, thank you.

My knowledge as a beauty therapist and sports massage therapist and everything. The stuff I don't get to do, that I love to do.

But being that kind of therapist, therapist, not in the sense of counselor, but doing what I used to do in the class, the classroom and in the staff room. I'd see somebody kind of cockeyed and I go up and go, let's have a little look at your posture. What do we need to do?

Right, why aren't you going to Pilates? Why aren't you doing yoga? You didn't know you needed to do that.

Well, I'm telling you now, it's the best thing that you're going to ever do for yourself. Longevity for your career.

And it's all of those things from working with people with knowing or like things like, you know, they're coming in and their kids got aches and pains and you know, you would turn around and say, well, if you had your vitamin D checked, if they checked the vitamin D, that type of stuff that you only get from People's experiences, whether that's in life or professionally. So it's not counseling. That's not what this is. It's a pause moment, a time to reflection.

Sue Davies: 00:33:35

I'm even wearing the, I'm even wearing the. Wearing it. My pa. My PA T shirt on.

Sam Blake: 00:33:40

But that's, that's the point, isn't it? We, we get our clients to pause, but when do we pause? And that's coming from somebody who had to rain her 100 mph personality in to go.

Stop, pause, breathe. Yeah, get you, you kind of levels back down to a kind of manageable level because otherwise your body's in stress the whole time.

And even when we, you know, if you're working alone, you might not feel the stress, but it's not until somebody sees you where they know that you're stressed because they get to know you.

Sue Davies: 00:34:11

It's like you yesterday you said we had a part of a conversation on Voice note and you went, I don't think we should do this with this podcast tomorrow morning because I think you need to be doing other things. So. No, because I actually do really need to do this. But Bar, it is. But you hearing my voice. You can hear my voice.

I mean, I know I, I can hear it in my voice when I'm stressed, but like you mentioned the vitamin D thing, you know, like I, I now looking back, I'd had 10 years before I got diagnosed. I'd had 10 years of stress building and that make.

That came through really horrendous financial nightmares of nearly losing our house, having HMRC turning up on my doorstep demanding like I can't even. Was there £20,000 or something. It's like, yeah, but.

And then trying to work, trying to have the kids, trying to support my husband's business and my mum died. And then like Trev's mum got really ill and was terminal with cancer.

And then my dad died and it's a night and you go through all of this stuff just going, okay, just put another rod down my back. Just put some more weight in my rucksack. And. And I was. And I'm a coper. I like coping. I can't help it. I just, I cope.

And I think so many of us do that. And I think especially those of us in this, this profession, we are a caring profession.

We are there to look after people and make people feel better. And as part of that process, we often make ourselves feel worse. And we now, I now know, say we.

I now know that all those years and years and years of stress that I had that was sitting and I was coping and I was fine. And people would say, how are you dealing with this stuff? And it's like. Because I just have to.

So I just get on with it and I'm fine, don't worry about me. And. But over those years, the cortisol levels in my body and the adrenaline levels in my body were so high that they obliterated my vitamin D.

Meanwhile, the doctors were going, oh, you just premenopausal. I was like 38 years old when they started and maybe younger. Oh, you've got young children. You're going to be tired. Well, actually, no.

And then as the kids get older, oh, no, you must be premenopausal. Have some hrt. No, I don't want hrt because this isn't menopause.

And, you know, I mean, I literally went through my menopause about three years ago, so it really wasn't menopause. And I think we don't realize the physical damage that we are doing to ourselves. And I am a great example of how coping leads to.

I mean, and when my vitamin D. I say my vitamin D was low, I was near zero. I was empty. There was really vitamin D left in.

Yeah, I probably had like a tablet's worth left in me and that is how long it had gone on. And we don't realize we are doing this to ourselves. I had no idea.

Plus I had UV, like 99 UV filters on my windows in my salon where I was spending 60 hours a week. Because by then.

Sam Blake: 00:36:51

That's a joke. That's a joke in a side. Isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:36:53

That, I mean, but that's, I mean.

Sam Blake: 00:36:55

I'll bring it, I'll bring that round to risk assessment training.

Sue Davies: 00:36:57

Oh, yeah, but we, but we had to have. We. I, I was, I had to have.

Sam Blake: 00:37:01

It because of product. But then that becomes that. If you're working with somebody who's got that knowledge.

Sue Davies: 00:37:06

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:37:06

Or you'd known somebody like me, I would have said, well, hold on a minute. Are you getting enough vitamin D? Are you taking stuff? Yeah. And it is literally that, isn't it? That kind of. It's the accountability.

But it's also that. Have you thought about it another way?

Sue Davies: 00:37:24

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:37:24

And we talk about what you don't know, what you don't know a lot. I mean, I've been there.

You, you know my story of what I balanced and have balanced over the past five years outside of what I've been trying to build. But there's, there's a historical thing with me with, and I'm going to call it high functioning anxiety because that's basically.

Sue Davies: 00:37:42

That'S, I think that's probably what I, I've gone through. Definitely.

Sam Blake: 00:37:45

Yeah. I had a breakdown when I was teaching in fe. I had a breakdown. I had work related stress and not the best relationship outside of it.

And I, this is why I'm so focused on the mission of making people in our industry aware of mental ill health. And I'm not talking about schizophrenia or being suicidal. That's one part of it.

Because I think the focus there also has been historically, you know, how we talk for our clients, how we talk to our clients and picking it up there. But my thing is, what about us? What about us?

The conversations I've had, you know, I, I've, you know, we've had lots of laughs about my, my two dominatrixes clients who, you know, I'm like 19, just out of college, in my early 20s, giving me an education whether I wanted to or not and feeling quite traumatized and shell shocked coming out of doing somebody's full body waxing and then having them in two days later for a fake tan. Dreading actually them coming in because of what they might be telling me that they've done with their clients.

Sue Davies: 00:38:55

And I did, I used to have. That's quite an amazing, amazing client. Who was they? They referred to themselves as a tea girl.

And, and he was 6 foot 5 in no shoes and when he had his heels on, he was about seven foot something. But he used to lie on my couch.

I was doing facials and, and this came at a point when I was mature and we could, and we could have a conversation about, I mean the stuff he told me about some of the fetish clubs and things. And, and he was always really great and he would like, is that too much information? It'd be like, nice, fine, I can, I can deal with that.

But some of it, it does. When you have, when you're in our space, we are sanctuary for other people to offload. Like my lady, that's going to come to me shortly. I know.

And she's not, she's not offloading anything about fetish clubs. She isn't like that. But, but she, but we have that, we have that offload from people. She, she. Which is the last person that would be in that place.

So we have that offload, don't we? And I think it's just recognizing that with that offload from our clients.

Sam Blake: 00:40:00

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:40:01

Can come shock and trauma and can come Surprise. And, oh, my God, like, if that happened to me, and you can feel anxiety on their behalf and, and there's, there's.

Sam Blake: 00:40:09

So it's also, it's also for us, developing an unconscious bias.

Sue Davies: 00:40:13

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:40:13

You know, I worked with somebody at that point who was very religious, and I went out to try and talk to her about it and, And I got told it's blaspheming, don't talk. And I was just kind of like, okay. But, you know, I find people interesting naturally.

Anyway, and these clients, you know, I'm sounding very negative about them. I found their whole lifestyle, who they were, how they got there. So interested.

Sue Davies: 00:40:36

Yeah. I love it.

Sam Blake: 00:40:37

I did not want to know the. Literally, the.

Sue Davies: 00:40:41

The ins and outs.

Sam Blake: 00:40:43

Literally. Dominatry, 19 and early 20s. I'm still finding myself. Yeah, it was, it was. It's a challenge of gray. But.

Sue Davies: 00:40:55

Yeah, I think, you know, but this, this is like a staff room chat, though, isn't it? And.

Sam Blake: 00:41:01

Exactly.

Sue Davies: 00:41:02

And this is, you know, and we all have these stories, and it's. The more you go through your career, the more you have, like, wacky stories about things that people have shared with you.

Sam Blake: 00:41:11

I, I go with the. There's moments I felt incredibly unsafe.

Sue Davies: 00:41:16

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:41:18

Frightened even.

Sue Davies: 00:41:19

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:41:21

Moments where people have told me things that I really wish I'd never heard.

Sue Davies: 00:41:26

Yeah.

Sam Blake: 00:41:27

But also the experience of seeing a client who is traumatized, who is upset, who is going through something, and you yourself having no outlet or skill set to manage that situation. So two different things. The skill set to manage and then the skill set. Or the. What would it be? Sue? The. The self awareness to go.

I need to talk about this.

Sue Davies: 00:41:52

Yeah. Is. Isn't it? And in counseling, there's the term supervision.

Sam Blake: 00:41:58

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:41:58

And.

And I think, as you know, although we aren't counseling therapists, we're beauty therapists or holistic therapists or hair professionals, whatever segment of the industry we're from. But we.

It's like, you know, what, what you're trying to set up is like a kind of supervision, and it's something where you can, you can talk about those things in a safe, confidential space that no one's going to go and go, oh, you know, I was talking to so and so the other day and they said, you know, Jane down the road was doing this, that the other, you know, this is not, you know, staff room.

Sam Blake: 00:42:28

Not that gossip.

Sue Davies: 00:42:29

It's not about gossip in staff room. In our industry is a place of us offloading, us sharing.

Sam Blake: 00:42:40

It's. It's that sanctuary.

Sue Davies: 00:42:41

Yeah. But we've got a few minutes left, so. Because I have got. What have I got? Yeah, I've got about five minutes till my client's going to be here. So.

So what do we want to finish on? I think we need to, I think we should finish with.

You know that this is your, your safe space virtual staff room is going to be opening its doors soon. I won't be in there. I'm going to.

Sam Blake: 00:43:06

Yeah, it's low ticket for me. This isn't me going, oh, I can make some money out of this.

This is me going, I need to charge for my time for the organization, but I need to make this accessible to many rather than a few. And it's going to be. You can dip in and out of.

Sue Davies: 00:43:22

It needs to be a no brainer.

Sam Blake: 00:43:24

Yeah, yeah, you, you use it when you need to use it. But there'll be other layers to it as well with training and workshops and things that you can get.

I mean, you know that I'm building hubs, what the hubs look like, various versions and things because you know, it's a creative process to get there for need and what you're trying to achieve. But with the safe space staff room, it is literally that it's a non judgmental supportive space where Internet twats won't be allowed.

Sue Davies: 00:44:04

And it's going to be, there's going to be people like myself in there that, that have got a lot of experience. But also.

And something that a lot of people don't realize, I do because I don't talk about it loads, is that I do control the control system which can help people with anxiety and getting in their own way and all of those things, all of those fears and anxieties that come with running your own business. So I'll be working with Sam to focus on some, some of that stuff just along among all the other things and all the other plates I'm spinning.

But, but it's okay because I'm.

Sam Blake: 00:44:40

If you weren't, if you weren't spinning the plates, you wouldn't be happy. But it's learning to spin the plates and knowing when one too many is, one too many is.

Sue Davies: 00:44:50

And it's like, you know, like this week on, on Monday I think it was, and I was chatting with Nina about the business connect thing, the big event we're doing and it's like, I actually, I can't do this today. And I recognize the points when I go, do you know what? I can feel myself cracking. This is. I said to her, I can't Talk about this today.

And I actually, I've got to go and concentrate on some stuff that is in my head that I need to do and. Because I literally can't take any more on and, and I know, I know my signs now very well. I have learned.

It's taken a long time to learn it, but I know my signs. When I'm going, actually, there's a match burning underneath me and I'm. And it's going to start burnout.

And I kind of, I recognize and then I have people like you to go, whoa.

Sam Blake: 00:45:35

So I think it's also the stuff that we don't get taught is, you know, what I like to address. So, you know, talking about things like imposter syndrome, talking about how other people's psychology impacts you.

You know, I know enough about it, but that's where I'll bring experts in, in the fields. And this is whole body, you know, from one month of focus might be our exercise.

Another month it might be, you know, how are you not automating your business? You know, all of these tech things, even, you know, personally put my hand up to that.

I can go down rabbit warrens and rabbit holes and come out in Australia with stuff like that. And having somebody to just say, well, hold on, let's simplify this.

You know, the questions that you see even about fresher and all of that, and then you get the sales posts. It's about right fit, right time, right place, right person for me.

And you know, that's something that I always like to, to sort of challenge on the, the social groups because if you're new to the industry, you can't see through the fact that somebody's putting a link because they've got an affiliate link and they're not being open and transparent about that. It's even that thing to say, oh, did you realize that that's what that is? And that's the only reason that they've posted it.

They use it, but they're going to earn a percentage out of it. And if you don't know that or you're not wise to that, you might make a decision based on something that's.

Sue Davies: 00:47:09

Potentially on somebody else's lifestyle. Yeah, anyway, we've got, I've got. I, I actually go. It's quarter past 11 and my client will be here momentarily.

So thank you so much for coming on today, Sam. And I hope everyone's got a lot out of this and can see the benefits of what it is that Sam's trying to create. And yeah, thank you. Very much.

Sam Blake: 00:47:35

Thank you for having me.

Sue, I'm gonna say at this point my DM is open, even if it's just signposting, even if you're feeling a certain way and you don't know where else to turn. Sam, I am the safest salon geek on Instagram and the safer salon geek on Facebook.

Sue Davies: 00:47:50

Wonderful. That's great. So yeah, well me and Sam probably carry on having a very very very so I've got to go. But thanks ever so much, Sam.

Sam Blake: 00:47:59

Have a good day everybody. Thanks.

Sue Davies: 00:48:02

Well, that probably was. I don't know.

I've got to check the recording time, but I think by some miracle two of the industry's longest talkers and biggest talkers may possibly have just done the shortest episode on inspiring Selling professionals for a guest episode for a long time. Anyway, I hope you found that useful. I really have got stash because I have got my client is probably about to put up on my drive.

So and we really did just squeeze this in because we wanted to get something out there that covers this topic because it is so important. So thank you very much for listening and watching or wherever you are and I will see you next time. Bye for now.

Speaker B: 00:48:40

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Sue Davies: 00:49:36

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Salon professionals.

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