How to Create a 3D Client Avatar That Attracts More Business with Adam Chatterley

Sue Davies: 00:00:03

Please note that the transcript is created by AI and using any content may require checking for accuracy.

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals. The podcast that allows every therapist, now tech and stylist, to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams.

Each episode we'll be looking at a different area of the industry and along the way I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who'll be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career. I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional. Welcome. Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Speaker B: 00:00:36

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Sue Davies: 00:01:33

Hi there and welcome to this week's episode of Inspiring Salon Professionals. This is going to be episode 98.

We are a couple away from the hundred mark and this week I'm thrilled to be joined by a true veteran of the spa and someone business world and fellow podcast host Adam Chatterley.

He has over 20 years experience helping salons, bars and skin clinics worldwide, streaming their systems, boosting profitability and scaling sustainably. Adam is a go to for business insight and for strategy. From designing UK's number one thermal bars to steering the spa industry through Covid.

As Chair of the UK Spa Association, Adam's journey is nothing short of inspiring and which is why he's here today.

And I'm not going to lie, he inspired me to start my podcast and he reached out after I was fangirling him a little bit on my podcast live last week with Phil Jackson when we were talking about starting our podcast and a couple of days later in my inbox there was a message from Adam and anyways we kind of had a bit of a chat and we worked out that we had could get our diaries together and I'm as I sounds kind of freestyling a little bit on these last few episodes because I had nothing planned and it was just like a bit of a spontaneous. Let's just get to 100. Let's do that. So if you haven't listened to Adam's podcast, he is host of the long running Beauty Business Secrets podcast.

And go check out he has got 200 episodes. He's just. I was just checking before I was doing the recording and he's up to 200 and I'm just getting to 100.

He's been going since: 2016

I also was very fortunate to feature as a Voxbox contributor on an episode all about whether to charge or not charge for the cost of COVID protections in the salon. Those were the days, weren't they?

Anyway, Adam is the creator, great programs like the Money Method and Impact, which we're going to talk about today. And he helps solo and established pros alike build thriving businesses on their terms.

So today we're going to go into a little bit about something that Adam is doing about Client Avatar and just kind of enhancing that, maybe rethinking how we do that. And he's talking about doing that in 3D. So we'll find out much, much more about that.

So if you've ever felt like you are, you're speaking to everyone but not really connecting with anybody, then today's episode is going to be with you. I can see Adam is in the waiting room already, so I'm going to go and welcome him in and I will see you on the other side.

Well, hello, Adam Chatterley. It's been a while. I was just saying on the intro how you slipped into my DMs last week after hearing me fangirling about you.

Adam Chatterley: 00:04:18

It was the weirdest thing.

I just, I was like, just happened to listen to an episode and suddenly you, like, compared me to like, you know, you know, oh God, the likes of Adam Chatterley. Like I was some sort of podcasting granddad. Well, yeah, well.

Sue Davies: 00:04:31

But obviously I'm clearly older than you. However, you have been at the podcast thing probably. Well, I think double the time I have. And you've done double the amount of episodes I have.

Adam Chatterley: 00:04:40

Yep.

Sue Davies: 00:04:40

And, and it is, and it's partly your fault that I do podcasts. This is.

Adam Chatterley: 00:04:44

Well, I do apologize.

Sue Davies: 00:04:46

It's the Thing and I think as well, that's what me and Phil were saying is it's just the thing is this is something that's. So we all like talking. So it's just like a natural place for us to be.

Adam Chatterley: 00:04:56

Absolutely. I love doing the podcast.

Like, like we were just saying a second ago, you know, it kind of, you need, you need some rest, you need some time off sometimes. But yeah, it's definitely my favorite thing to do. It's definitely my, my most successful content channel by a long way.

Sue Davies: 00:05:11

Yeah.

Adam Chatterley: 00:05:12

So, yeah, long, long live the podcast.

Sue Davies: 00:05:15

Absolutely. I know. I said, well, we know I'm coming to the end of my season now and I am looking forward to not editing and uploading and doing all that stuff.

I'm gon to have a break for quite a while whilst I go off and start the magazine. Yeah, well, sort of have a break a little bit.

Adam Chatterley: 00:05:32

Replace it with some other work. Yes.

Sue Davies: 00:05:34

Just do. I like. I like spinning plates. Someone said to me today, you just like being really busy, don't you? Maybe. I don't know what I do now. I don't.

It's quite. It's when you have no place of work to go to.

Adam Chatterley: 00:05:48

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:05:48

You have to keep yourself busy because otherwise you'd just be like a knitting nana watching morning TV or something. And I am not being a knitting nana. Anyway, I want to run something past you because in the intro I did call you this and it's just. And I said I was.

No, it was a night, it wasn't anything bad but. But I said that you are a, an industry veteran, weirdly because I use chat GPT for lots of stuff. That's what it called you.

tarted getting called this in: 2017

Since it's been in my world and I was really quite put out when someone called me a veteran because it made me feel like I was really old and I was a bit like, don't know if I like this.

Adam Chatterley: 00:06:40

Well, I think I have to own it, to be perfectly honest. I think, you know, 20. Where are we? 24. 24 years in the industry, I think, I think probably classifies me for veteran status.

Sue Davies: 00:06:50

This isn't it because I, I first got called it after I won Services to Industry and Helena Biggs gave like whenever you win that you get like a 12 month contract to do like the A column in scratch.

Adam Chatterley: 00:07:01

Right.

Sue Davies: 00:07:02

My My scratch column was industry veteran. No, Helena.

Adam Chatterley: 00:07:07

Okay. I don't necessarily want it on all of my bios, but it kind of.

Sue Davies: 00:07:13

Stuck and like, and, and a lot of people referred to me, have referred to me since as the industry veteran, because it was there in black and white and I was really quite put. Lovely son was like, but, mum, it just means that you've got that much experience and that much knowledge to share and it's a really good thing.

Adam Chatterley: 00:07:29

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:07:30

I don't know, I'll just sort of think of like the old war veterans, all their medals and sitting in their wheelchairs and, you know, obviously they've done amazing things for their, for their country, but. Yeah, I just thought. I just asked you how you felt about that term because it's.

Adam Chatterley: 00:07:44

I don't, I don't think I'm going to start using it, but I, But I'm, I'm. I'm okay with it. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:07:50

Yeah. It's an odd one, isn't it? Because it's sort of. Yeah, it's hard to call yourself it.

Adam Chatterley: 00:07:55

Yeah. I think, I don't think I'll start. I don't think I'll change. The podcast introduction to.

Sue Davies: 00:07:58

Yeah.

Adam Chatterley: 00:08:01

Industry veteran Adam Chatterley.

Sue Davies: 00:08:03

I know I do use it in my bio quite a bit now. But anyway, anyway, aside. Veteranism aside. Yeah. So you've had quite a varied career and you've worked with a lot of luxury spas.

I'm quite intrigued, actually. One of the things that I didn't know that you did was that you created thermal baths. Like, where was that? What was that about?

Adam Chatterley: 00:08:24

So, well, every. My entire career has kind of been slightly accidental. That one was. There was a huge project in. Down in. I'm gonna.

I'm gonna offend half the country here. It was in Bath, or Bath, you know, down south. And they were. Basically.

There was this huge project going on to reinvigorate both the idea, the concept of thermal bathing and doing it in bath. Bath using the thermal waters there, which obviously it's famous for with the Romans and everything. So they built this huge, amazing facility.

But, well, basically it was all going ahead. And then it turned out there was an issue with the contractor who'd built it.

They'd kind of used substandard materials and the whole thing was just mothballed for like three years whilst it went through all legal issues and stuff. And eventually the, the council got involved and they kind of went, well, it's. It's mostly done. We just need to fix it.

We can't just have this building sat there. So they got involved and they just needed someone to kind of needed a veteran to come in.

Sue Davies: 00:09:32

Is this what created your veteran status?

Adam Chatterley: 00:09:34

Possibly to come in and kind of make it work?

So I didn't run the place, but I was brought in to make all of the, all of their systems work because they wanted it to be as, as staff light as possible so that people could move around as freely as possible in the kind of tradition of thermal bathing, albeit in this incredibly modern way. So, I mean, it's. I think the reason I, I count that as such a. A big part of my career was we invented quite a lot of technology to make that happen.

You know, nowadays we're all familiar with these, you know, these RF chips that can do all sorts of things. They're in our phones.

But as far as I know, in the uk, we created the first kind of wristbands that would let you into the building, out of the building, pay for things so that you could stay in your robe the whole time and not have to kind of carry money around. Now, as far as I know, we invented that in the spa world because it didn't exist before, so we had to like bring in all sorts of technology.

And yeah, it was, it was amazing in the end.

And one of the things we had to do because these bands at the time, they're probably worth pence now, but at the time they were quite expensive, so we had to come up with some way at the end that it took the band back off you. Yeah, so. So yes, there was really cool things we did in there and it was, it was a bundle of nightmares.

It was like trying to, trying to invent and run a brand new spa with a whole layer of technology on top as well. But it works.

Sue Davies: 00:10:58

I think I've been there because I've been. I've been to Bath a few years ago.

Adam Chatterley: 00:11:01

Right.

Sue Davies: 00:11:01

Is it the one with the rooftop?

Adam Chatterley: 00:11:02

Yeah. Thermo bus bar. Yeah, that one.

Sue Davies: 00:11:05

It was amazing. And that water. Oh my God, the smell. Yeah, I managed the next day, after we've been there, I went to.

We went November, so the Christmas market was on and I managed to find a shot.

I've had this about four years and stuff and I can't use the last of it, but I managed to find there was someone in the Christmas market that sold a body butter that smelled like the bath.

Adam Chatterley: 00:11:26

Okay.

Sue Davies: 00:11:26

Oh, my God. And I've still got it. I can't use it. I'm like, I've used quite a lot of it and I I've got to find whether.

Where I can get it because it is beautiful and that smell is just so divine.

Adam Chatterley: 00:11:37

Yeah, it is. So that was. That was definitely. That was a good two. Two years of my life was. Was spent bringing that to fruition.

Sue Davies: 00:11:46

So is that part of like. So one of the things that. That's like quite a major thing you've done. So what else is there that kind of sums up why you do what you do or.

Or what sort of got you into this and what makes you want to stay.

Adam Chatterley: 00:12:00

Well, like I said, so much has been an accident. I completely fell into working in the industry by accident. I was working for a company. It was a computer software company.

My background is in systems and computer software.

So I was working for this computer software company straight out of university, and they basically provided the software systems that ran all of the famous golf clubs pretty much in the world and went to work for them. And.

And within the first six months of me working there, they started getting requests from their clients for something to manage these things called spas, you know, you think the like of Gleneagles and places like that, you know, they started opening up these spars and there were. There was nothing that existed to help manage them. So this was a bunch of, you know, engineers, software engineers who, you know, they.

The owner of the company played golf, but he knew nothing about spars.

So I was dispatched up to Gleneagles basically for three months just to go and learn how this thing called spars worked, to report back to developers so we could build a system. So that's completely how I fell into the industry. But that was my introduction to it. And I was like, well, this is clearly such a new thing.

No one really knows how this works. And the way my mind works is in kind of systems and numbers and, you know, flows and all that kind of thing.

So that's how I got started in the industry. But from there I basically just realized, you know, there's a system to be put in place here. Yes, there's the.

There's the treatment side of it and everything like that, but there is money to be made, there's systems to be built, there's efficiencies to be had. So that's kind of where I started.

And I kind of transitioned from working with software to then kind of been more in charge of helping spas make more money. Yeah, and that was in my. I call my corporate days, where, yes, I worked with some beautiful hotels all around the world. We lived in.

t was like two, I want to say: 2012

And I was doing, working with some big corporate brands and I just fell out of love with the corporate world because at the time it got to the point where no one wanted to make a decision, no one wanted to do anything different, no one wanted to do anything exciting because everything had to be run past legal and marketing and, and everything like that.

And, and obviously we'd gone through the, the financial crisis so people were being made redundant and it was, and it was just, it was just not fun because I couldn't get anything done. And I.

One thing I have learned or that did teach me was I thrive off getting results for people and when I was just not able to do anything, I just wasn't having any fun. Fortunately, at the time I'd started working with a couple of still hotels, still kind of corporate ish spas, but they were independently owned.

And I realized that I could get so much more done for people who could literally make a decision and run with it. So that's how I shifted into working more with independence.

And since that day I've never looked back because I can get, you know, it's that, it's that freedom of being able to make a decision today, put into place tomorrow and see results the next day. And that's, that's where I thrive. So, so that's kind of how I've gone from, from computer to corporate to independence now.

Sue Davies: 00:15:08

So what does it say obvious now you don't live in the UK any longer?

Adam Chatterley: 00:15:12

No, no.

Sue Davies: 00:15:13

So you live life of Riley over.

Adam Chatterley: 00:15:15

There, still work hard? Yeah. A couple of years ago. A couple years ago we realized, well, I mean obviously life changed a lot for everyone during coronavirus.

And prior to that I was doing some work with people online but I was still very much going and you know, in person visiting some clients and sitting down with them and working with them. And obviously through coronavirus, that wasn't a possibility.

In fact, as the whole industry was shut down in the UK and most of America, I ended up working with solely with Australian customers because they were the only part of the beauty industry during that period that were even open. So my entire business switched to Australia. Can't really go and visit them.

So overnight I became, well, not overnight, but all of my business became online and me and my wife had always wanted to take the kids overseas and experience genuinely living in a different culture.

And it just, you know, there was this realization one Day of like, well, actually, what I do doesn't need to be done from home in Leeds anymore, so we can go somewhere else. So that's, that's kind of the reason. It's not, it's not that I was completely disillusioned and wanted to leave the uk.

It was just we genuinely wanted to give the kids this opportunity to both experience a different culture and fully properly learn another language. So. So that's what brought us. So, yes.

Sue Davies: 00:16:38

I mean, I learned a little bit of Spanish when I went to Costa Rica the other year, but.

Adam Chatterley: 00:16:42

You did? Oh, yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:16:43

That was amazing. Well, and then they all spoke English to me. It's like. And whenever I tried to speak Spanish, they just went, no, just go, are you English?

Adam Chatterley: 00:16:51

Yeah. So actually, funny, funny story was version one of the, of this living overseas was actually Costa Rica.

We, we did this huge trip when my little boy was born and my wife was on maternity. We weren't traveling for four months around Australia and New Zealand and Japan. And we came back from that.

Everyone told us it was the worst idea ever, and yet it was just the best thing we ever did. So ever since then, we were like, oh, let's do something else crazy. And we came up with this idea of living in Costa Rica for a year.

And in our minds, that was: 2020

Maybe we just go somewhere slightly nearer first. So that's why it was. It was toned down to Spanish.

Sue Davies: 00:17:38

But no, I strongly recommend Costa Rica. Stunning.

Adam Chatterley: 00:17:43

Yeah. Well, we're going to go. We're definitely going to go. Don't think we'll live there, but we're definitely going to go visit.

But, yeah, no, my Spanish is the weakest of the whole family. My kids are now fluent. My wife is very, very good at Spanish. But I. I have what I call functional Spanish.

It's like if I'm in a supermarket or I'm in a restaurant, I can get by. But if someone stops me in the middle of the road with no context and just starts talking at me, I'm like, I've got no idea.

Sue Davies: 00:18:08

Yeah, I know. They do it so fast as well, don't they? They speak very quickly.

Adam Chatterley: 00:18:12

It is fast. It is fast. Yeah. But equally speaking to them now and they, they think we speak very fast.

And, you know, we have so many different accents and dialects that it's, it's very difficult. Plus, we have words that. Or a spelled way but pronounced entirely different ways.

Sue Davies: 00:18:26

And the most hysterical thing was when I was out there. But like, the guy that ran the. The Turtle projects that I was volunteering at, he kind of. He. He really got where I came from and everything.

And he's been to London, he loves London. But the girl that was his assistant, she just didn't get it.

She thought I came from Camden, where Adele comes from, and north of the river and couldn't. And it was. And I. I did find a lot of offense because it's like, how north London? But they.

They found my accent to be really quite peculiar because I just sound like somebody off EastEnders to them.

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:01

Right.

Sue Davies: 00:19:02

Which I'm. I really don't believe. I do sound like something southeast London, not east London.

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:08

Well, at least. At least London is somewhere people can point to on the map.

When you're from Leeds, it kind of galls me because I'm like, I'm from Leeds, and people sort of look at me a bit confused. And I end up having to go.

Sue Davies: 00:19:20

A couple hundred miles north of London, Chester, and draw.

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:22

You draw a line into the middle, so.

Sue Davies: 00:19:24

And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, over there somewhere. Yeah, yeah. It is difficult, isn't it? Anyway, so now that you have kind of moved yourself overseas, so did you.

Do you find your day runs in the same way?

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:37

Yeah, it does.

Sue Davies: 00:19:39

A lot of people kind of disappear off somewhere like that and then the world just turns upside down.

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:46

No, day. Day still runs the same. Biggest differences are. Biggest difference, our meal times. To be perfectly honest, our evening meal is now ridiculously late.

Sue Davies: 00:19:58

It's so weird, isn't it?

Adam Chatterley: 00:19:59

It does, but it stretches the day out. That's the thing we've learned. You know, obviously it's sunnier over here than in the uk, but we. We basically say it's like.

It's like you almost have two days in one, because the kids finish school and they're still so much of the day left and the weather's good that you can genuinely kind of properly go and do something after everyone's finished school and finished work. So, you know, I mean, the kids are now enrolled in every single class going. My.

My daughter, if, like, there's a class going, she wants to be part of it. So. So that's kind of kiboshed evenings. But it's. It is that way. It's like you can. You could, you know, you could finish school and go to the beach.

You could finish school and go for a long bike ride. It's. It's. It's the freedom that gives you is amazing. So. But no my day business wise still pretty much the same.

Sue Davies: 00:20:45

Still pretty much same. So nothing, nothing's changes. You're still there supporting all salons and all the spas and drama. Best drama, best business life.

So one of the things we're going to talk about today is 3D client avatar. And I'm being. Because I do a lot of work around ideal client stuff and trying to get client journey and how you find your clients.

Adam Chatterley: 00:21:08

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:21:08

So how do we make client avatars 3D? What's that?

Adam Chatterley: 00:21:12

So, so this is something that we, we. It's kind of a fundamental of everything that I teach.

It's probably when I work with a client one to one, there's kind of two things that I will do with everyone. One is perfect price of profits and the second one is, you know, really kind of dialing in on who their client is. And you know, we've.

If you've been in business for more than like two seconds, someone's told you to either niche down or you know, focus on your ideal client avatar or we call them perfect future clients. But it's essentially the same, the same thing we're talking about.

But I think a lot of people teach it in a very simplistic way in terms of kind of only focusing on what we call the demographic, which is, you know, the, the who of it, the linear side of things, you know, male, female, age, where they live, what they earn, that kind of thing. So I think a lot of people go too simplistic and just focus on that. So for a long time we've been talking about the who and the what.

So we bring in some psychographic stuff. So it's kind of the.

Sue Davies: 00:22:10

I was waiting for that word.

Adam Chatterley: 00:22:12

I didn't, I didn't call it this at the time, but we now, I think of it as 2D because we had the. Yes, you've got to think about your age range and your person and where they live and all that kind of thing. But then we wanted to go a level deeper.

So we wanted to really understand, you know, their likes and their dislikes, their interests, their frustrations, their fears, their wants, their hopes, their aspirations.

Because that all just helps you get kind of built in on, you know, really who you're looking for rather than just, you know, do they, do they live in a certain area and are they a certain age? So it just helps flesh out that client. So we've been teaching the, we call it the who and the what framework for a long, long, long, long time.

But kind of in the past, probably about nine months, we've, we've added an extra level on because we realized almost accidentally that a lot of our clients, even though they've done that work and they were very clear on those two areas, they were still accidentally targeting a lower level of client. So we, if I can, if I can do a drawing for a second. If you're drawing.

Sue Davies: 00:23:11

I'm looking forward to this. Adam. This is the first time this has happened on the podcast.

If you are listening, and I just say if you are listening on audio, you're going to need to pop over to YouTube for this because you're going.

Adam Chatterley: 00:23:22

To, you're going to want to see this. So.

Sue Davies: 00:23:23

Or should I audio describe.

Adam Chatterley: 00:23:25

Yeah, so we've always talked about kind of this linear kind of moving forwards was, which was just kind of the, the who are we looking for? And then we added on this kind of looking back a bit further into their background and going, well, this is the who.

But now we've gone, well, there's actually four different levels of client. Four different, we call them calibers of client now. So we've added this, this third level on here. Let me just bring up my notes.

So it actually makes sense when I'm talking about this. So we say at the start, and we think there's four of these in any industry.

This is not unique to, to the beauty industry, but I think there's, there's these very four distinctions. The first one is we call TBH or the Bargain Hunter. Yeah, these are, we all know them. These are the people who bring along.

You know, they want cheap, they bring drama. They're never loyal. You know, all they want is to feel like they've got a deal. That's it.

Sue Davies: 00:24:19

And we know what they're gonna, they're gonna cut and run.

Adam Chatterley: 00:24:22

Yeah, they're gonna cut.

Sue Davies: 00:24:23

Right.

Adam Chatterley: 00:24:23

They chase deals. In fact, they're probably not even interested in the thing that they want unless there's some sort of deal to be had.

So that's kind of what they bring, what they want. They just want fast. They want cheap, they want all that kind of thing. The problem is they disrespect your time. Those are the ones that don't show up.

Those are the ones that kind of cancel on you at the last minute call, just cause you all of the problems. Yeah, but I think if you asked any salon owner, any beauty business, and they're like, no, no, that's not who we're attracting.

But if you look at what attracts them, constantly posting Discounts, constantly posting limited time offers, leading with the price, talking about your price before and above and over anything else, rather than like the value that you deliver or the results you get for clients.

And if you skip showcasing your client results, focusing on reviews, focusing on your expertise, focusing on your outcome, that's actually who you're speaking to, whether you mean to or not. So that's kind of our lowest level, our Bargain Hunter. Now above that, we've got the next one, which is we've turned.

Now, everyone's going to call these different things depending on, you know, the style of your business, your personality, brand and everything. But we call them the dabbler. So the dabbler better than the bargain Hunter.

They're curious, they want something shiny new, not necessarily a discount, but they're, they're hesitant, they're inconsistent, they book occasionally, but they don't rebook. You know, they, they'll ghost you for months and then suddenly want something straight away. Never fully commit.

You know, it's hard to build loyalty with these people because they're so kind of like they're not necessarily going off and looking for deals, but they're just that there's no consistency to them. And if you think about what attracts those people, funnily enough, it's inconsistency on your side.

So if you're inconsistent in your, say, your postings or your emails. So if you send emails once today and not for three months and then three in a week and all that kind of thing, that's who we're attracting.

Similar thing with our post. If your posts don't have a cohesive look or, you know, they're all about random, different things.

Are you posting about every different treatment that you do? Yeah, that's kind of who you're speaking to equally.

Only focusing on your treatments, only focusing on the new machine you bought, only focusing on that rather than, you know, the result, the outcome, again, those kind of things. So we call them the Dabbler. Better than the, the Bargain Hunter, but still not who we want. Next level is where it gets fun. We call these the Keeper.

So this is level three, Keeper.

These are people who trust you, they respect you, they do rebook when you remind them they're committed, they're trusting, they're invested in what you do. But when there's no but, these, these are good. These are kind of level one of where you actually want to be.

And if you think about what attracts these people, you know, these, these are the people you get when you share your real client Journeys, because they identify with those people. And like you say, if you've done the who and the what, you know, who you're talking to, it becomes easier to kind of attract these people.

They want to come on journeys, they want to come on programs with you. They respond to reviews. So that's why those are so important and so important that you share them.

Not just that you have them, but you share them and you tell the story around those reviews.

Sue Davies: 00:27:29

And it's like that. And I think as well, that kind of those clients are the ones that everything you do resonates with them. And it kind of.

And it kind of hits them in their heart somewhere, isn't it? It's like those are the ones that you have a connection to.

Adam Chatterley: 00:27:40

Yeah, we have a level above them, but we'll come to in a second, but yeah, okay. So these are the ones who respond when you talk about the results and the plans and the process and. And things like that. And they. They tend to.

They tend to respond when you talk like the professional, not like the. The needy come about my treatment. So you. You talk with authority. You talk about the results you get.

You talk about your equipment in terms of why you bought it and things like that, not why they should have it. If that makes sense. Yeah, that's the keeper then. We've got, at the top, we've got. We call these the evangelist.

Now, these are the ones that are obsessed with you. They do everything that you have. They tell everybody that they know. They bring friends with them.

You know, they're loyal, they're enthusiastic, they're proud to be a client of yours. Not just, you know, they like coming to you. Yeah, they buy your packages, they buy your programs. They do everything.

They ask how they can get better results. They ask how they can, you know, can we buy more things to, you know, make things last longer, work better?

Sue Davies: 00:28:37

All over your best friend.

Adam Chatterley: 00:28:39

They're not quite. Yeah, they're not quite. I mean, obviously it's. I have no issue with being friends, but that shouldn't be necessarily your. Your goal.

But the point is that they actually, this is kind of the pinnacle. They feel part of your brand. It's not that they come to you. It's not that they like you. They feel part of your brand. You know, they.

They make your brand part of their life. They respond to your VIP offers, they want to be your member. They love any kind of level of exclusive access. It's like there's.

There's nothing that they won't say yes to if you get these people. And the great thing is I actually believe, and you know, some people might be listening to this and going, oh yeah, they're really hard to get.

But I actually believe that every business probably has one or two of these already. You know, there's, there's some people already.

Sue Davies: 00:29:26

I'm sitting going, oh yeah, when I, when I have my salon, my favorite phrase, when I have my salon, I can sit and I can, I can count. Many of them, yeah, exist.

Adam Chatterley: 00:29:37

18 years, they exist. And it's just about, well, how do I speak to those people? And that's how you need to speak to everyone. So we've added those.

That, that's the third dimension, if you like. We've added that, that in there. So it's very important that you have both the who and the what.

But also you run every single bit of messaging, every email, every post, every, every bit of content you put out into the world, every blog post, every advert, run that through this framework and go, am I talking to the level of client that I want to be talking to or am I still playing small and going for the bargain hunter? So we're calling this, we're calling this, we're talking about it in a 3D sense, but we're calling it the perfect future client upgrade.

Because what I want to do is I want everybody to look at where they are now, honestly, and go, okay, yeah, actually I'm, I think I'm speaking to the dabblers a bit much and I want everyone to look at whatever the next layer up is and go, okay, well I need to shift all of my thinking, all of my marketing, everything that I do and move it up a level to start talking to that one level higher. Because I am now convinced that if you do that, you don't need to change your whole business and treatment menu and everything.

It just, everything that you do will still work for them. It's just your whole life gets easier because they are going to respond to what you do much, much, much better.

So, so yeah, that's our, that's our third dimension of our perfect.

Sue Davies: 00:30:59

I think it's quite.

And also, I mean, you know, so some of that stuff like the basics of it of like the who and the what, they are so fundamental of like, you know, where, where. That classic phrase like where do your clients hang out kind of thing.

But you have got to work out why they're hanging out, where they're hanging out. And, and I think the whole point about what you're saying is like, you've Got to find their why, isn't it? It's like that. You know what?

Start with why. Why do they need to come to you? Why do they want to come to you? And why do they stay with you?

Adam Chatterley: 00:31:25

Absolutely. Stop thinking, stop thinking of the fact that. And I know this offends people when I say it, but I mean this with love in the nicest way.

People aren't coming to you for your treatments.

People are coming to you for what's on the other side of your treatments, how it makes them feel, you know, the confidence it gives them, all those kind of things.

You know, if you're a massive therapist, the, you know, the, the pain relief or the posture or the, you know, a lot of it obviously comes down to improved confidence and that's why people actually come to you.

So if you start thinking about that and going, well, you know, people don't necessarily care about the product that I use or how long it takes or stuff like, it's about the result they get on the other side of it. And to a large degree, massage is the one exception to this.

But to a large degree, if you can get them the result quicker, easier, more conveniently, with less pain, with less effort on their part, they'll pay more. And that's where these whole things come about. Because if we upgrade the people that we're talking to, they understand that.

They value their time, they value your time. So if you can help them understand that, you'll get whatever the outcome is that they want with less effort. Yeah, pay more. And that's.

Sue Davies: 00:32:35

It's about the benefits, isn't it? I know I had a business coach on who's external to industry at the beginning, at the beginning of this season.

Sarah Burton, and she is an ex, she's like got sales and marketing degree and she's kind of carried that with her through a lot of what she's done. And she was talking to me about features, advantages and benefits and how we, as an industry, we tend to get a bit stuck in the features.

Always what we're going to do to you, this is, you know, these are the, these are the things we can do, but what we forget is the benefits bit and even the advantages, you know, and we were talking, I was talking with her about that whole thing of like, you know, she has her nails done every couple of weeks because they're part of her personality, they're part of who she is. She stand on a stage speaking, she wants people to see her red nails 100%.

And, and that gives her that Confidence and that ability to be able to walk into the world feeling Sara, because that's what she wants to feel. And we need to kind of. Yeah. Just sort of connect a little bit more with that as business owners, don't we? I think that 100.

Adam Chatterley: 00:33:32

Yeah. No one cares that you're using the latest, you know, micro needling pen.

Sue Davies: 00:33:38

Yeah. By whatever company. No one cares.

Adam Chatterley: 00:33:40

What does it, what does it do for me? How does it make my life better? And I know that sounds, you know, because we, we, we do truly believe.

And yes, there's a huge amount to the power of social and the power, be it. Or being social and the power of touch and everything. Everything that's in our industry.

But ultimately it comes down to the result for a lot of the side of things.

Sue Davies: 00:33:59

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we just, we really, really just need to. We. I think so much of it is that.

And we know from so many people that we see across forums and groups and going, but I can't sell. And I think it's just we aren't, we aren't naturally salespeople. We're there.

Most people in this industry are there because they have empathy, they have caring. They want to make people feel better.

Adam Chatterley: 00:34:23

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:34:23

They don't. They've never been taught how to sell that.

Adam Chatterley: 00:34:26

Well, I have, I have two feelings on this and funnily enough, one of them stems from what we just talked about. Because if you're attracting the right people, you won't ever have to sell.

Well, no, because all you'll be doing is recommending or suggesting and then they'll take you up on it. But if you have the trust of people, when you make a recommendation, they naturally take you up on it. You never have to sell. So it.

I get that people get frustrated when I go on so much about getting clear on who it is that you want as your client.

And to a lot of people who are, you know, maybe seeing one or two people a day and just struggling to get any clients at all, I can see how me stood here going, no, no, no, focus on your ideal client. Doesn't sound particularly helpful.

But the amount of people who I have, I have in some way or other arm twisted into doing this that were in that position before and you know, three months later going, oh, my God, now they, now they.

Sue Davies: 00:35:20

I was saying she was before, like, you know, I was talking to someone this morning doing a discovery call about, about visibility and ideal client goes so hand in hand with that. Because if you, if you're visible and talking to the wrong people, then that's not helpful.

If you're visible with the right message, talking to the right people.

Adam Chatterley: 00:35:39

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:35:39

Then it's a match made in heaven. But if you can't get your visibility right and you can't get your ideal client right, you are going to be sat there with one or two clients a day.

Maybe one or two clients a week.

Adam Chatterley: 00:35:49

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:35:50

And.

And understanding what Adam's talking about and about all the stuff that I've got on about through the whole season about, because I do bang on about it a lot. But. But having those two things together is what forms your client journey and what helps those people literally land in your lap.

Adam Chatterley: 00:36:10

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:36:11

And if you can't, if you're not getting that right, then you need to speak to Adam or me. I'm not.

Adam Chatterley: 00:36:17

Yeah. You know, this. This is. This is not. You know, we've added this layer on. We. Basically what I do is I.

I like to guys that I systematize the ideas of doing things because I think as business owners, we get very in our heads when it comes to things that should be more simple and if.

Sue Davies: 00:36:34

There'S tech involved, even more. So.

Adam Chatterley: 00:36:35

Yeah. And I always say, whenever. Whenever that gets in the way, take the tech out of the way, get piece of paper and just work on that.

Figure the things out on there. And. And this is the thing is this is. This is not rocket science, difficult stuff. But the second we're in our own business and I find this.

You probably find this a lot. It's like when it's my business, there's all these kind of voices come into your head that talk you out of things.

You can probably, whether you know your best friend's industry or not, if they come to you with the problem they're having, with what they're doing, you can probably see the solution so clearly that they can't because they've got all the voices going on in their head. So we do massively overcomplicate this.

Sue Davies: 00:37:14

Yeah.

Adam Chatterley: 00:37:14

So we kind of just give people this framework to help them get that clarity. But, yeah, I've seen it so many times when people are like, I'm struggling to get clients, I'm doing this on the other.

And, you know, it became so, so obvious to me. Well, you're talking about this one day, that another day, this thing over here. Then you share this personal thing.

Nobody knows who you are and who you're for.

And the second we get people to commit to that, be very, very clear about it, spread it across all their socials and Be laser focused on even for a period of time, because again, I need. I find myself having to soften this quite a lot because I deal with a lot of nerves and things like that.

So I'm like, okay, well, let's not say this is forever. Let's just for six weeks, let's just try it.

This one person who we're talking to, talking about really getting in the life of helping them see the result and can happen so quickly, the change in businesses.

Sue Davies: 00:38:06

So I think as well sometimes though, isn't it? It's just the confidence. And I know since I. Since we.

We saw each other about a year ago, I've trained in a wonderful thing called control system, which is like a version of hypnotherapy. So I could now help people literally lose all that imposter syndrome. Like, wow. Be able to speak and to appear online because.

Yeah, it's a challenge sometimes for people, isn't it?

Adam Chatterley: 00:38:31

This is the thing. I'm not. I'm not a mindset coach. I have training in it, but it's not my thing. So we talk about.

So inside of the money method program that we have, we talk about confidence bypass. And it's very possibly what you're talking about there, but I find actual results generates confidence like nothing else.

So there's a period of time in the program where I'm like, just put all of your doubts and worries to one side. Just do this for a week.

Sue Davies: 00:39:00

And you just. You just need to convince your subconscious totally that literally it's wrong.

Adam Chatterley: 00:39:08

Well, and that's hard to do. So ignore it for a week, take some action, get some results. And suddenly it starts chipping away and going, hang on. This one.

Sue Davies: 00:39:17

Your subconscious. There's an alternative thinking pattern.

Adam Chatterley: 00:39:20

Exactly.

Sue Davies: 00:39:20

So it's like, it's that simple.

Adam Chatterley: 00:39:22

It is. It just chipped away. And it's chipped away and the story disappears. And then you're like, hang on, this works, this works. I'll just keep doing this.

And the amount of people who have done this. And then I have. I have. One of my favorite posts ever is I just.

I just got this message from one of my clients and it was just like, I blame you, Adam. I was like, oh, God, what happened? Message back and goes, what's going on?

And they were like, I've got no free time because my pocketbook's full all the time now, and I don't know what to do.

Sue Davies: 00:39:49

I'm like, okay, I need some of the. I need some of those TPH people back.

Adam Chatterley: 00:39:55

Yeah, bring Bring back the people who cancel on me so I can have a bit of free time.

Sue Davies: 00:40:00

Although saying, and joking aside, I went out is, I have to say again, when I have my salon and I was like fully booked all the time, it used to be an absolute joy. Sometimes when someone used to cancel, I used to take it as like, you know, a sign from the universe that I needed to sit down and have a cup of tea.

Adam Chatterley: 00:40:16

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:40:18

And just having five minutes to. Or an hour or whatever to sit and work on the business or think about what I was going to be doing next week.

Because when you're working 50 hours a week back to back, it's really hard to do that. And sometimes you need you. Sometimes you need those moments given back to you. And I always, I always used to see them as a bit of a gift.

Adam Chatterley: 00:40:36

And it is funny because I think obviously a lot, A lot of people come to me when they are stuck and they're struggling and things like that. And I think if you, if you told them that, that that was a problem that they could have, they'd, you know, bite your hand off for it.

But then when it happens.

Sue Davies: 00:40:50

Yeah, I got, I did. I started doing this thing about. I sort of did it as a beater and then I got like, I always do went off down some other train track.

But I started doing this thing about how to utilize your white space effectively.

Adam Chatterley: 00:41:05

Oh, yeah, cool.

Sue Davies: 00:41:07

And because we do get white space, because people. Life happens to people.

Adam Chatterley: 00:41:11

Oh, it's going to happen. Yeah. There's no, there's no mitting against it completely. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:41:15

And so you have to be prepared and you have to have stuff in the can for when that happens.

And it's like, you know, that's when you do, like a load of social media posts, you know, that's when you go, actually, let's look at the treatment list and see what we can lose and be more efficient or whatever. You know, there's so many different things you can do.

Adam Chatterley: 00:41:31

We call it the back. The back of the staff room door checklist.

And it's no, it's no more complicated than you literally have a long piece of paper on the back of the staff room door. And it's just when you think of something, you just add it onto there.

And then when you find yourself with I've got a cancellation right off to the back of the staff room door, what's next on the list?

Sue Davies: 00:41:47

We used to, we used to have, on the wall, I had a whiteboard and there was like a permanent, like revolving list of different things that needed doing.

Adam Chatterley: 00:41:54

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:41:54

And it's like, anyone got anything? If you've got spare time, go and pick something off the list.

Adam Chatterley: 00:41:58

Yeah. And I loved it when, when, when I used to, when I actually used to run spas and have staff, because it just, it was the greatest thing.

You'd come up and you'd find a couple of members of staff just kind of chatting at the reception desk. Desk, okay, what are you doing? And they're like, oh, we've had a cancellation. So.

And so I was like, oh, what is the next thing on the back of the staff room door list then? And they'd be like, here he goes.

Sue Davies: 00:42:18

Why does he always have to come up with that one? So, so what is one practical tip? So if any people are listening or watching, what's one thing that they can do to start elevating that client avatar?

Adam Chatterley: 00:42:35

I think the one thing I'd say, and I'm happy to provide you with this list, sue, to give away to people as a download, but I'd say just kind of like take a good hard look.

In fact, if social is one of your things that you're using at the moment to get message out into the world to let people know about what you do, I would say look at your last six posts and run them through this kind of like bullet point list and be honest with yourself and be like, you know, where. Who are these actually talking to? You know, are they talking to the, the, the bargain hunter? Are they talking to the dabbler? And be honest.

And then basically go right, for the next six weeks, all of my posts are going to be aimed at this next level higher and then see, see what the difference happens. So, yeah, I'll happily, I'll happily give you this checklist. So you go through.

Sue Davies: 00:43:21

Yeah, we can, we can sort that out. So what was. Oh God. With me Broad. You know, I hate that. My brain's just gone.

Adam Chatterley: 00:43:29

No, there was a genius question.

Sue Davies: 00:43:33

No, sorry, it wasn't, it wasn't a genius question. Was just to say, I know when I started, when I was. And funny enough, actually when I started doing the podcast, I wanted to, I.

One of the things that came up on the course that I did was I have knowing who you like, your audience and who you were talking to. And I actually created and it's something I, when I work for people doing Ideal Client that I, I recommended, they do and I, I found a picture.

I just, I mean that back then I was like scouring through Shutterstock or whatever, trying to find It. And obviously now you can just ask AI to create it for you, but. But to actually get that person.

And I used to have them on the wall in front of where I was recording. So I was talking to somebody. And I think sometimes having that visual really helps because if, you know, if you sort of.

If you try and find a picture of what the Bargain Hunter person looks like, we all, we all have. We all. There's.

There's probably a format of who that person looks like and that person who's going to give you all their money and be with you forever and love you so much. It's probably a very. Another very different look. And so. And that's quite judgmental really, but it is.

Adam Chatterley: 00:44:37

We. We did an exercise once in, in one of my first iterations of a program that I now I still have, but. And I had the same thing I had. I'd like.

We've done the who and the what, but let's really, you know, really kind of hone in and talk to that one person. So I was like, no, go. Go grab a magazine, cut out a picture of someone, stick it on the sheet.

And then it had the kind of the, the keywords around it. And I realized that a bunch of people went and picked some celebrity.

And I was like, well, that doesn't work because you've just immediately ignored all of the work that we've just done. And all you can think about now is your thoughts around the celebrity that you've just done.

So we had to make it a rule of like, right, you can pick someone, but they can't be a celebrity. You can't know anything about them. They just need to look as you imagine your ideal client.

Sue Davies: 00:45:22

Maybe we should have a competition, Adam. We should both go off and try and create our own. Our ideal client avatar. With Chat GPT.

Adam Chatterley: 00:45:30

That'd be.

Sue Davies: 00:45:32

Because I reckon. I reckon that'd probably be a really good way to use Chat GPT because you could.

And it'd be interesting to see whether it can cope with all the nuances of what you wanting an ideal client.

Adam Chatterley: 00:45:41

I'm sure it can. I'm sure it can.

And it would be eye opening because I think, like you say, you probably have an idea of who your ideal client is, but with a blanks, like just fed the specific information that you could generate from doing this exercise, you know, it will. Even if it comes back with something that you. Well, that's not my ideal client. You know, it'll get into your brain. You'd be like, or is it yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:46:02

Yeah, this is it.

But I think, and it's one of the things I do love about AI is that you can, you can play with it in this way and it can be quite a fun aspect of like next time you get a cancellation, maybe go and do this.

Adam Chatterley: 00:46:14

Just set a, set a timer. I genuinely have a timer clock on my desk because that's the thing with AI, it could be like obliterate a whole afternoon.

So I'm like, okay, 20 minutes max.

Sue Davies: 00:46:24

Yeah, two prompts only. It's like, can't go down that. Okay, so, okay, so let's.

We move away from client avatar and, and just like, I mean we have kind of spoken to you already a little bit about the Beauty Business Secrets podcast, but what can. Do you see yourself continuing to do that for the foreseeable? You're not.

Adam Chatterley: 00:46:47

Absolutely. I think it's, it's in, in the nicest way. It's the one that stuck.

You know, social media obviously is a, an inevitable part of running a business, but it's, it's just never quite the natural thing for me. I keep joking, I think it's got to be a generational thing to a certain degree.

But it's like my parents came to visit a few weeks ago and it was like the last day of them being here for a week and we're like, oh, we've not taken any pictures, we must take some pictures. And we did that and then we went to lunch. Me and my wife went to lunch last week with some friends that we've made over here.

They are younger than us, they don't have any kids. They're not super younger than us, about maybe seven, eight years younger than us, but they don't have any kids.

And like we went to lunch and then afterwards she sent us 17 pictures of us at lunch and we were only there together for like an hour.

And I was like, yeah, I'm that person who like two days after something has happened, I'm like, oh, that would have made a really good Instagram story. So, yes. So I think I keep doing YouTube videos. I love the long form stuff. I love the ability.

I can teach more on YouTube, but obviously they take so much longer to put together.

And again, you and I were saying, you know, when I started doing podcasts, it took genuinely was probably four days to create a podcast episode with the recording and the uploading and linking together and all that kind of thing. Now it's got so much easier now. But, but yeah, it's, it's the one way that I can genuinely help people.

And I know, I know that the, the short form, the shorts, everything like that, they're all the kind of the, the trendy stuff, but you can't really learn. You can get some good snippets and some good sound bites, but you can't really learn in that format. So the podcast for me, yeah, is how I can.

It's how I can help the most people for free to. Then if they want to go any further, then they could come and work with me. But hopefully we've.

We've got them some results, we've got them some more money, we've got them clarity through the stuff we do on the podcast. So.

Sue Davies: 00:48:45

Yeah, and I think as well, the one thing I love about a podcast is it just stays there. Social media comes and goes and people are never going to go and search for a particular post. But.

And I think it's something that even as a salon owner or a spa owner or a solo Pro, whatever, using YouTube and not necessarily, like, not necessarily having a podcast, but just using YouTube for the shorts and using YouTube for videos that you can share with your clients gives you a completely different way of communicating with them. Yeah, it's something that's searchable because it's a search engine and, and you'll come up more, make you more visible. It is.

Adam Chatterley: 00:49:21

But, you know, if you think about the way we all experience YouTube to a certain degree is like, we have a problem, we want a solution to it. So we go and search for that and find a video and watch it. We don't, we don't always go and go, oh, that was a good video. I like that person.

I'll subscribe to them because they've just solved the initial problem that we have. And I think podcasts are unique because. And you probably get this as well, Sue. I probably get two or three emails a week from someone who's gone.

ease don't maybe start around: 2019

Ish.

Sue Davies: 00:49:59

That's it. I know when I was chatting with Phil last week, we were. I mean, my, my first episode I did with Donna Clayton and.

Adam Chatterley: 00:50:06

Okay, yeah, because we share a birthday, me and Donna.

Sue Davies: 00:50:09

Yeah, you do. And we like, we were like proper work wives at the time. And, and I was like, you've got to come on, I can't do this on my own.

Like, what am I going to do? So she came on and she held my hand on my first episode and I was terrified, absolutely terrified because I had big boots to fill after you.

But it was, but you know, I listened to a lot of podcasts, I suppose I listen to podcasts. Probably about, probably about when you started yours. I never discovered yours at that point. No. And I was listening to comedy podcasts.

Richard Harris, one of my great comedy heroes. And I just, I used to listen to like quite a lot of funny podcasts and stuff. And I, so I, I felt there was, there wasn't loads of us doing this then.

Like you, obviously you were there and I think trying to think who else was who had a podcast there. There wasn't really many others in the industry that had gone beyond a few episodes.

Adam Chatterley: 00:51:00

I don't think there was. I honestly, when I said probably the most.

Sue Davies: 00:51:05

Although Phil's, Phil's up to hundreds of episodes now because he just does like.

Adam Chatterley: 00:51:09

Phil's just consistent. Phil's great. Phil just, you know, he's a machine. There's, there's a few, there's Daniela Warner in the States. It's a friend of mine.

She must be 3, 400 episodes in hers now. She. Another, another one of those where it's like she started after me but was amazingly more consistent than me.

And, and now she's got this ginormous podcast.

Sue Davies: 00:51:30

Yeah.

Adam Chatterley: 00:51:30

Brit, Siva, Sheila, Bella. There's, there's a, there's a bunch of them that have, yeah, really stuck at it and, and yeah, wise.

Sue Davies: 00:51:39

There isn't that many. There's not many of us over here, is there? I don't think there's a few more now. Ryan, Ryan and Holly did one for a little while, didn't they?

And later. Did one later. Keep stopping and starting.

Adam Chatterley: 00:51:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think you have to keep stopping and starting. I actually think, I mean, I. Hats off to the people who do it week in week.

Sue Davies: 00:51:58

I mean, Phil does it. He hasn't had a break since he started every week.

Adam Chatterley: 00:52:02

He is incredibly diligent and organized and yeah, I, I.

Sue Davies: 00:52:10

And he repurposes everything. He is, he's so.

Adam Chatterley: 00:52:13

Yeah, he does. He's is incredible at that. And mine, mine is very much more the.

Especially these days when you've done 200 episodes, you sort of think, well, I've to a degree talked about surely everything.

And yes, some things do and some things change and some things need a refresh and stuff like that, but I'm, I think I'm very much more now a top of mind kind of podcaster. It's like, you know, I'll, I'll go through a week and if something occurs to me, I'll make a little note.

In fact, actually, as you know, I have a, I have a cheat hack way of doing it now. I stole this from someone else.

I basically now when a kind of an idea occurs to me, I used to kind of just write it on a, an internal list or a notepad or a notebook or a notion, something or other, and I inevitably forget about it or find it six months later. Oh, that was a good idea. But now what I do is I tweet ideas. I don't tweet them, I put them on threads. So could never understood the.

Could never get my head around why threads existed for. I don't know how long has it been around now?

Months, years, whatever it is, but I heard on a podcast guy called Alex Hormozi, and he said what he does is when he has an idea, he's still a big fan of Twitter or X or whatever. And he tweets his idea and he's like, if it gets a lot of. I don't even know what happens on Twitter anywhere. Thumbs up, likes, whatever.

Sue Davies: 00:53:41

Like, if it gets a lot of engagement Adam Nobody.

Adam Chatterley: 00:53:47

But basically, if it got a lot of positive response, let's say however that happens on Twitter these days, he'd be like, oh, that's a good idea. I'll make that into a bigger piece of content. So I completely stole that idea.

And I was like, well, I don't want to be on Twitter, but threads seems to be a thing. So I now just tweet ideas, not tweet. I still same tweet. I thread ideas. What do we say? Thread. I put ideas on threads.

Sue Davies: 00:54:11

There was a whole thing around this when it, when threads first started, what were you actually doing? And I came threading. Sewing.

Adam Chatterley: 00:54:18

I was sewing. Anyway, I put a thing on threads, whatever that is, and do exactly that.

If it, if it, if it ghost towns if no one responds to it, I'm like, well, that's clearly not a good idea. But if people respond to it, I'm like, okay, well, that, that has some legs. Let's. Let's go with that.

So that's kind of how I come at podcasts now, is through that mechanism. And every year, yeah, we're going to have one about social media, whatever the state of that is, we're going to have one around pricing. It's me.

I can't go 12 months without talking about price. So there's some mainstays of stuff. But, yeah, most of the things now are going to be based on top of mind, which is.

Which is why now it's a little bit more. I don't say sporadic, but I'm. There isn't necessarily one every single.

I try to post every two weeks at least, but there's not one every single two weeks. Because I'm very much at a point now where I'm like, look, if I've.

If I've not got something genuinely useful to say and share with people, I'm not just gonna put an episode out.

Sue Davies: 00:55:19

And I have to say. And I'm with you with that. And right now it's like this. No, not this. Not last week. I actually shocked Phil because I was so.

I was selling it last week. We recorded on Monday morning.

Adam Chatterley: 00:55:28

Morning.

Sue Davies: 00:55:28

And I had it. I think it was up by Monday lunchtime. He was like, I'm not even live yet.

Adam Chatterley: 00:55:32

What are you doing today?

Sue Davies: 00:55:34

The week before, I'd not put. Because I normally do, like, it normally drops, like, middle of the night over the month. Sunday, Monday.

Adam Chatterley: 00:55:40

Right.

Sue Davies: 00:55:41

But I've. I've kind of just sort of. If it. If it goes out, it goes out. It's like, I know this, like the episode.

This episode will go out next week, but I've got a family coming for the weekend, so. And I've got a massive couple of days ahead of me to get stuff out of the way before they arrive.

As the chances are this will just go out sometime next week. Because people have got people. If they. If they're subscribed, it will drop whenever they see it.

They'll see it whenever it drops, and if they're not, then they'll find it in their own time. And I think I've stopped pressurizing myself over.

Adam Chatterley: 00:56:13

I think it's really sensible. I think I'm exactly the same. I used to get obsessed with, you know, what's the exact best time of the week and day of the week to post an episode?

And now it's just like. So I. I'm. I'm lucky I have a podcast editor. I don't have to do the editing and everything myself now. But. But we basically just like. Like, is it ready?

And they're like, yeah. I'm like, great, post it. Like, literally happened this morning. There's an episode gone live.

Today Happened this morning is like, page is done, everything signed off, things ready. He's like, what time do you want me to post it? I was like, just. Just post it.

Sue Davies: 00:56:45

I just think it's Easy.

And I think that that comes with the confidence of knowing that you've got like a whole back history and that if people, if people are newer to it, they're just going to go, if they were expecting one today, then they'll just go and find one they've not listened to. And the pressure is. The pressure's not there, is it?

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:01

Exactly that. It's like there's, there's 200 others to listen to. Go kill your boots.

Sue Davies: 00:57:06

Absolutely. So one of the other things that you're currently working on is your impact program.

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:11

Yes.

Sue Davies: 00:57:12

Yeah. So what is, I take it it's about making impact. It is, it's quite run still.

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:18

That's what it says it is. Yeah. You'll find that in any of my stuff. It's kind of like, I don't, I don't go very deep with the naming.

Sue Davies: 00:57:24

No, it's just like it's always the best way, isn't it? It's like, yeah, what you haven't done, what you haven't done at the salon Facial.

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:30

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:57:30

It's like, what is it? What is impact about? Who, who is, who is your, who's your ideal client?

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:37

My ideal client.

Okay, so this is basically for larger, I hesitate to say people that have teams, but probably a salon or a skin clinic that is doing north of 15k a month.

Sue Davies: 00:57:51

Yeah.

Adam Chatterley: 00:57:51

So probably have a team, at least a small one, but right up to anything else.

But these are the, these are the people who previously I've worked with on a one to one coaching basis and I love working with people one to one, but I've always found this weird pressure with, you know, people again tend to come to you at any point to a coach when they're. Things are on fire or they're struggling or something's actually happening.

And what I found was if we come in and they just come straight to one to one coaching, they probably haven't got the time available to dedicate to what they need to start doing with one to one coaching to actually make a very big impact very quickly. So I've looked back at the past sort of three or five years of working with one to one clients.

I've gone, well, what, what are the most common things we've done in what order to deliver the biggest results that we got? And it was quite interesting when I actually looked at it.

A lot of things jumped out straight away and I kind of thought, well, the first thing we do is we. I have a process called perfect pricing for profits, which is how we basically just Help you make more money without doing any extra work.

And we always did that first in like 95% of the cases. But it took longer than it should have done because they were already busy, things were on fire, there were problems in the business.

So it took, you know, maybe six weeks, maybe even two months to get that in place. Whereas with the last few clients I've done it, I've just gone, right, come on board, we'll just do that for you. So it's been done in two weeks.

So they immediately get all those benefits, they start making more money. That gives them the breathing space to then, you know, step back a tiny bit and have some time so we can actually get the more strategic stuff done.

So essentially Impact is, is re.

It's still one to one coaching, but it's very much more of a structured process now where we come in and we do the work initially for probably about the first couple of months. There's still the coaching element, but we just make it happen.

Then we move into a kind of a more structured one to one coaching process where we actually start focusing on bits within the business and fixing those. And then there's a kind of a phase three, which is where we just kind of make sure that everything is kept ticking over with them.

So it kind of goes through these stages, but we've called it Impact because that's exactly what it's designed to do. It's designed to go into a business and immediately make a difference.

Sue Davies: 01:00:00

And I think as well, it's a really nice. It's a novel idea, isn't it, to go and actually do it for them?

Because I think the problem is when people are coming to coaches for help and assistance, like you say, you're often firefighting.

Adam Chatterley: 01:00:10

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:00:11

So it probably does make a lot more sense for you to come in and put the fires out.

Adam Chatterley: 01:00:15

Yeah. And it is.

Sue Davies: 01:00:16

They can carry on doing what they need to do and then they can kind of pick up with you when all of their ducks are in a row kind of thing.

Adam Chatterley: 01:00:21

Yeah. And it means. And it, it actually takes a lot of the pressure off me because we now have a promise in there.

It's like if we don't make you the money inside those first two months to pay for the whole year, then you don't pay. So it's kind of putting our money where our mouth is.

Yes, it's high priced, it's one to one coaching, but it's, it's like, well, let's make you the money that you need to pay for the Whole thing in the first couple of months. And I'm not saying the money is going to be in your bank account, but we'll change the things in the business to make sure.

Sure that the money is coming in and then we just get to work together both for free and freely for the rest of the time and make the other changes in the business that are going to really level everything.

Sue Davies: 01:00:58

Yeah. It does say it's a. It's a very good idea. I like that. So, quotes. Because it's been a theme this year. This year? This season. It's been over two years.

Adam Chatterley: 01:01:10

Oh, yes. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:01:11

Quotes. So I.

Adam Chatterley: 01:01:15

Please ask me to remember what I wrote down.

Sue Davies: 01:01:17

I know, I'll run through. Oh, there's two I've picked out that you gave.

Adam Chatterley: 01:01:20

Great.

Sue Davies: 01:01:21

Because you did. And your whole form that you gave me was. Was just like a whole. Just a gift of work.

Adam Chatterley: 01:01:29

Glad you said it that way. I thought maybe I'd. Maybe I'd gone a bit overboard.

Sue Davies: 01:01:33

I like. No, because it. No, because it gives me more to work with and it's nicer. I like words. I can't help it.

So the first one that I'm going to go with is one that really resonated me with me and it was the poster you had on your office wall that never doubted that a small group, committed citizens, can change the world. Indeed. It's the only thing that ever has.

Adam Chatterley: 01:01:54

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:01:54

And that just is like every. That's like everything I live my life by is that if we all. If we come together and collaborate, we can make things better.

Adam Chatterley: 01:02:02

Yeah. 100. I think it's.

It's whenever we're having those days where, you know, imposter syndrome's kicked in or feeling smaller, it's like, well, you know, what difference can I make? That's. I think it's just such a powerful quote. I think it's. Originally, it's Margaret Mead. It's often attributed to many, many other people.

But, yeah, originally it's Margaret Mead, but yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:02:21

And I think as well, like, with, like so much of the things, especially at the moment, things that I've got going on in my world will only happen when the community comes together and we work as one unit.

Adam Chatterley: 01:02:32

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:02:33

Make something to make that change and to make things better. So. Yeah, that really resonated with me. So. So you haven't got that poster any longer?

Adam Chatterley: 01:02:40

No. All my stuff is in storage. We literally, when we moved over here, we literally brought four bags, four suitcases. That was it. So. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:02:47

So storage in the uk.

Adam Chatterley: 01:02:49

Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's, there's like three or four containers somewhere in some warehouse in the UK with like all of our stuff still in.

Sue Davies: 01:02:56

Geez, I don't envy you because when we were moving house, we had, we had storage, we had, I think we had 375 square feet of storage for about four months. It was hell, right?

Adam Chatterley: 01:03:11

I mean, it's no fun. It'll be like opening a time capsule when we, when we go back. It's like, what the hell is it here? What was the other quote? What was the other quote?

Sue Davies: 01:03:20

The other quote was. Yeah, more better, new. Ah, yes, you can explain.

Adam Chatterley: 01:03:26

You say so this is again, stole this one. But I think it just, it's. I like simple. I like taking hard out of the equation. I like just simple.

And I think in our businesses and possibly in our lives to a certain degree, it's like if we're struggling with a decision or we think we should. This is, this is great for you actually, sue, because you're always thinking of a new idea to do something.

And instead of new, which new is at the end of this deliberately? If we want bigger results, better results, we just need to look at, well, what, what are we doing now that's working and how can we do more of it?

Because if we're doing something we know it's working, then rather than trying to reinvent the wheel and go off and try something different, let's just do more of that. And only when you get to the point you'd be like, I physically have maxed out my ability to do more.

And even if it's your ability, can you bring someone else to just do more of that thing, whatever that thing is.

But basically, until you've absolutely exhausted the ability to do more of something that you know is working, do you then move on to the next stage, which is better? Which is like, okay, well we've maxed out doing more. Can we do it better? Are there any efficiencies in here that we can look at?

And only when you've maxed out those two. And I honestly believe that unless you are running many, many multiple sites within our industry, you actually never need to get to new.

Because if you max out more and you do everything better, I think you'll be as busy as you can possibly be. The idea being you go through more then better, and only once those are maxed out do you start doing something new.

Sue Davies: 01:05:03

And it's really interesting because as you're saying, I'm just thinking it's like you know, we know that I'm bringing my magazine back.

Adam Chatterley: 01:05:08

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:05:09

And that was one of the, the best things, things that I've done in most of my career. I have done some very other lovely, wonderful things.

But, but that was a, that was one of the biggest things that I love doing and would then resonated with the most people.

And it's taken me a long time to break to get to a point where I can bring it back, but now it's going to be better and so I don't need to do anything new for a while now.

Adam Chatterley: 01:05:33

She says just make it do more, make it better.

Sue Davies: 01:05:39

But that's it. And it's. And yeah. Oh yeah, that was interesting because I did wonder what that was gonna, that was gonna be about. So.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that because that's an important lesson for, for one to learn.

Adam Chatterley: 01:05:51

Excellent.

Sue Davies: 01:05:52

Yeah. So if people don't know already, how can they connect with you? How can they work with you?

Adam Chatterley: 01:06:00

Best place to find me is. Well, the website is beautybusinesssecrets.com. yes, that was deliberate at the time. It's backfired now.

Or beautybusinesspodcast.com or just search for the Beauty Business podcast or I'm Adam Chatterley on Instagram. But yeah, if you search for Beauty Business Secrets or Beauty Business Podcast, you'll, you'll find me.

Sue Davies: 01:06:20

Wonderful. Yeah. So what's next for you then? So you've got Impact happening and the 3D client avatar. And is that exactly for this year, is that going to be.

Adam Chatterley: 01:06:30

Well, the 3D client avatar is just basically replacing that foundation of both my programs. So we have Impact, which is the higher end thing. We have the money method which we're currently running under a program name of Skin Clients.

That's for the solo operators to get them to 8k a month. There's an 8 week program, probably the best thing I've ever created. So that's kind of helping the smaller people.

But the thing that's most on my horizon right now is I've got my retreat, we're calling it Escape to Elevate, which is here in Valencia. And that is your T shirt.

Sue Davies: 01:07:04

Just realized it says elephant.

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:05

Look at that. Look at that, Brandon. So it's escaped to elevate. In fact, I think it says Beauty Business Podcast on the back. Look at that.

Sue Davies: 01:07:10

Oh, look at you.

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:12

So yes, we've got the retreat happening. That is. So that's Escape to Elevate happening here. That's off. It's this Sunday actually. So Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

So I'm the first one I've ever done. I'm sort of equal parts excited and terrified. But, yeah, looking forward to having some people out here and doing some work in person.

Sue Davies: 01:07:30

Anyway, thank you so much for coming on, Adam. I can't believe that we finally got to share some podcast time.

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:34

Yes. Amazing.

Sue Davies: 01:07:36

I know. It was good. I just. Yeah. So thank you for dropping into my DMs last week.

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:39

Not a problem at all. Thank you for. Thank you for doing what you do, Sue.

Sue Davies: 01:07:43

Sorry.

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:44

Thank you for doing what you do.

Sue Davies: 01:07:45

That's okay. Thank you for doing what you do, too. We're both amazing, aren't we? Really?

Adam Chatterley: 01:07:49

Basically, yeah. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 01:07:50

Which is great. But, yeah, thank you so much for coming on. It's. Yeah.

Having from, like, fangirl to, like, having you on my show, like, as I say at the beginning, is that I probably would not be doing this if it wasn't for watching you do what you did first.

Adam Chatterley: 01:08:06

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Sue Davies: 01:08:07

But anyway, thank you very much. And, yeah, and you can get in touch with Adam in all the places he said.

Adam Chatterley: 01:08:13

Amazing. Thank you.

Sue Davies: 01:08:16

Well, what a lovely conversation with Adam. And I'm so pleased he came on. I. When I first started the.

The podcast, as I was saying, like, we were talking about a few podcasty bits, and when I first started, I. I couldn't ever imagine having Adam on my podcast. And. And I think it.

When I saw this morning that he was on his 200th episode, and I'm just coming up to my hundredth, it just seems like. It kind of seems. It's. It's the right time to have Adam onto the podcast. So I hope you got lots out of it. Do go and have a look.

If you are needing to look at your ideal client and you are needing to fill spaces in your diary, then I will be posting the. The link onto the show notes on my main platform and I'll put.

So probably go on to the Apple Show Notes and also it will go into my group on Facebook. So do go and have a look on there if you want to do that ideal client work.

And he's going to give us that framework, which is very, very generous of him. So enjoy that.

Hope that brings some interesting results for you because I think it's like having just this whole thing, like the dabbler, like, don't we know those people all the time? And they literally come and go and they probably got about six salons that they dabble in and do different things in different salons.

So, yeah, just have a think about your clients and how they work through those four different levels because we have all got all of those people within our businesses.

And I know even now with me, with like the very small amount of client work that I do, I know that I still have those people always and, and it's just a different understanding of the psychology of your client base. So enjoy that and and I will see you.

I've got a gap now just going off from another meeting and then I'm doing a recording later this Evening for episode 99 with the lovely Rebecca Day, who's a HR specialist and we are going to be talking about disguised employment and the, the challenges that face you from a HR side of things. And yeah, and then after that is going to be the 100th episode. So thank you very much for listening and watching and I will catch you next time.

Bye for now.

Speaker D: 01:10:29

Is your salon delivering the exceptional client journey you've always envisioned? The Salon Inspector, led by industry expert Sue Davies, is here to help you elevate every step of the client experience.

From the moment clients discover your salon online to the ease of booking and the clarity of your service offerings, every detail counts.

The Salon Inspector's Client Experience Audit offers a digital mystery shop of your business, featuring a thorough review of your branding, consistency, online presence and client communication.

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Sue Davies: 01:11:26

Thank you for listening to inspiring Salon professionals.

If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do subscribe, leave a review and don't forget, share with your fellow industry professionals and other business owners that you think may enjoy the show. Links and further information can be found on the Show Notes or on my website, www.sue-davies.com.

all links and further information can be found found in the Show Notes and there's also now the option to support the podcast through Buy Me a Coffee. The links for that you can find in the Show Notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

Adam Chatterley: 01:12:15

SA.