Embracing Change: How to Level Up Your Salon Business with Tracy Fensome

Sue Davies: 00:00:02

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Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals, the podcast that allows every therapist, now tech and stylist, to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams.

Each episode we'll be looking at a different area of the industry and along the way I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who will be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career. I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional. Welcome to to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

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Find the link in the show notes and see how Jenna can transform the way you work. Hi there and welcome to this episode of Inspiring Salon Professionals.

And today I'm joined by by someone who's become a great industry friend of mine, lovely lady by the name of Tracy Fenster. If you are in the world of PMU or aesthetics, you may well know Tracy. If you aren't, you may not have come across her yet.

But she's a force of nature and I absolutely love being in her company. So we decided it'd be a good idea for her to come on the podcast.

We have a little bit of a talk about all the stuff PMU and aesthetics and stuff that she does and also about some of the other stuff that she does. So she's been in the industry as a PMU artist and an aesthetics practitioner and industry judge.

She's got more than two decades at the forefront of beauty and the PMU world.

She's not only a sought after freelance artist working in two busy clinics where she just does a few days a month, but she's also founder of ETCT and ITech accredited training center up in Luton where she empowers professionals to build successful and sustainable businesses. She launched her first business at just age 23 and has navigated really life changing challenges to running multiple six and seven figure clinics.

Tracy's lived the highs and lows of the industry along like many of us. And she's going to be sharing some of those experiences with us today.

Her mission now really is to raise standards, coach sun owners in scaling profitably. I can't say the words today.

And she wants to help beauty pros build businesses that support their lives, not the other way around, as we know is often the case. She's got a passion for premium services, a passive income and she has long term success strategies.

And she's here to share the wisdom that she's gained over those nearly four decades.

And this is why she's come on the podcast is she just wants to share with the audience and she feels it's like a perfect space for a voice for pros to that are ready to thrive. So let's go join Tracy and, and I'll see you on the other side. So hello Tracy and welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

Can you just start just by giving us a little bit of that?

I have given you a little bit of background, but it's always nice when people say in their own words, so how did you get in the industry and kind of what's your pathway through been like so far?

Tracy Fensome: 00:03:34

Wow, thank you, Sue. Thanks for inviting me. Well, that's a long story, so I'm going to do my best to keep that short.

I didn't enter into the industry until my mid-30s, so before that I had other businesses I had that sort of background in, in me. So entered into the beauty and the per makeup industry around 37, 38 years old.

Before that I'd been in corporate, I'd been in sales and I had had about another two to three businesses in that time. But really the longest time has been working within this industry in terms of skin and making people feel great.

And that's my job really is as an educator and as a practitioner is, is to help people feel their best and, and get the best out of life.

Sue Davies: 00:04:18

Yeah, that's wonderful. And so I know we sort of came across each. I don't even know where we first met. It's just sort of.

Tracy Fensome: 00:04:24

I think it might. Was your magazine. I think it's just before your magazine and before we did the Excel last year when you come. But I think it was, it was.

Yeah, I think it was January last year, I think.

Sue Davies: 00:04:38

Yeah. Or the, or it may be the year before.

Tracy Fensome: 00:04:40

It could have been the year before.

Sue Davies: 00:04:41

But I think it must have been the year before because maybe. Yeah, I think it might have been the year before. But anyway, I know it's so weird though, isn't It. Because I.

My path's never really crossed very much into the PMU and AC as well, because it's not been something that I've done. And so, like, it's what we were talking before and there's all these people. You go, oh, and this person, that person. I have no idea who they are.

And it's so weird. Yeah, I know, but we.

I think it's a weird thing, isn't it, in the industry, is that we kind of see ourselves as this huge, like, salon industry, and yet there's so many niches within it where you can just like fall down a rabbit hole and get. And no one knows anything about that sector or not in detail.

You know, we all know, like, an overview of PMU does this and aesthetics is about that and now's is about this and, you know, whatever the different things are. But the names of those sectors are very often quite insular, aren't they? And it's sort of quite a time.

Tracy Fensome: 00:05:35

About, let's just say, the industry overall. If it's an umbrella and we all fall under that umbrella, that's what's so amazing for. About it, because the opportunities are there for people.

But you're absolutely right. I mean, you've mentioned people names to me before that are in the nail industry.

And although my salon did nails and we kept up to date and went to exhibitions and everything, I didn't really know anybody.

Sue Davies: 00:05:55

No.

Tracy Fensome: 00:05:56

So you introduced me to. To people within those industries as well.

Sue Davies: 00:06:00

Yeah. I think it is a very peculiar thing, isn't it?

Tracy Fensome: 00:06:03

Yeah. How amazing the. The whole, like, if it was a big umbrella, how many different, like, sectors there are within the industry.

The beauty, the skin, the aesthetics, the makeup, the nails. The one I never heard about the other day, what was the lady Corn. Cornotherapy.

Sue Davies: 00:06:19

Oh, Corneotherapy. I know Maria's catchy. Maria's coming onto the podcast and I know. I keep trying to work out how we.

How, because I was saying to her, I'd, like, I really want to have her on because what she does is so niche. But because it's so niche, it's like, you know, and I, you know, obviously we all know like, Corneo relates to the skin, but we.

I mean, I didn't know what it was that she really did. I just knew she was a skin expert. And, and so when, yes, I've been trying to work out how we're gonna. How we can bring her into the podcast and just.

And let other people find out about something that is like the tiniest Little niche within, within, very, very niche.

Tracy Fensome: 00:06:57

And you know, I've been in the industry now, what since that turned to about 25 years, probably knocking on 30 soon. But I've never. It passed me before, but I never quite knew what it was or took the time to really look into it because the exposure wasn't there.

So I feel a bit naughty and ashamed that after being in working with skin and done.

Sue Davies: 00:07:19

Yeah, me too.

Tracy Fensome: 00:07:20

That I've never really delved into this. So it just shows that we always keep learning. We just continually learn. If we're open to learning, that is. Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:07:30

And I think, you know, like, with that.

I know I was sort of thinking about this morning because I was just sort of like trying to plan the last few episodes of the season and I know I'm going to get Maria on and it's like. But I think it is, it's just like. It's just another niche to your business, isn't it?

And I know we all spend so much time talking about making a USP and corneotherapy, like, wow, what are usp?

Because no one really knows what it is and if you can bring something to your clients and because it's such a holistic approach and such a natural approach to skincare, I do, and I do feel about you, but I do keep seeing there's just like little shifts back to slightly more natural feeling around things.

Tracy Fensome: 00:08:05

Yeah, I think there is happening. I think it's definitely happening.

It's hard to put a percentage on it, but, you know, the, the, the focus for quite a few years now has been the aesthetics. And by that I, I mean, you know, more so the injectables that have been available to medics and, and non medics as well. And it's still very popular.

And I, I do some of it, I don't do. It's not the main bulk of my business, but I have noticed, I say notice, I have received from clients that used to have like fillers or Botox done.

Some when they come for the per makeup, they say to me, oh, Tracy, you know a lot about skin. I don't want to have this done anymore. What can I do to improve my skin or what can I do to lift these jowls up? You know, so it's.

Yeah, there is a slight shift there where it's going to be a huge one. We don't know.

Sue Davies: 00:08:52

But I think it's. Even when you look at like. And this is something that you obviously do lots of is like, you know, brow shapes and an actual Brow design.

hen I opened my salon back in: 2011

And obviously that's gone on and developed through the PMU market as well. And so then obviously microblading happened. I mean, it was already obviously machine work being done, but. But with it, with the SPMU stuff or it was.

It's just pmu, isn't it really? Now the S has kind of dropped.

Tracy Fensome: 00:09:32

Well, some people still call it semi permit makeup, but I think we had some frugalities over from America.

This is what I was told when I trained over 20 years ago, that now you call it per makeup because somebody in America decided to create a lawsuit because there was still a particle or a small amount of pigment left in somebody's brow. So you can't call it semi permanent.

Sue Davies: 00:09:52

No, no, but. But I think, you know, we've seen, haven't we, that sort of the trend of the brow through. Because it always used to be sort of just a.

A very subtle thing that people used to have done, wasn't it?

I mean, I can remember clients years and years ago having a bit of eyeliner done or maybe having their brows done a little bit, but it was never anything like it's become. But I do think you're starting to see now there's like, it's starting to kind of just get a little bit less obvious now that you've had brows done.

Tracy Fensome: 00:10:21

Yeah. And I think it's down to the age of. The age of the client as well. I think the fashion has been for these very large brows. Let's just. I say large.

Yeah, lovely. Large brows, ombre brows, powdered brows, strong brows, depending who's done them and who's.

You know, some people do them really not great and other people do them amazing. But that, that sort of demand and that fashion has been going for now for about five years, but it's changing. You know, my daughter liked those.

I mean, she's 32 now and I did her brows quite decent. Big ombre brows back back in about six years ago and already she says, I don't want those again. I want some really nice fluffy hair str folks.

So the trend is changing. But it does, doesn't it? It does in fashion and it does, it does in beauty. But yeah, the trend is definitely changing again.

Sue Davies: 00:11:12

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see, isn't it where it goes? Because where, you know, before, permanent makeup was quite a. An elite option for people, wasn't it?

to: 1000

And obviously now probably. I don't even know how much it is now. I'm sure. I'm sure you can probably get it done for about £100 somewhere nowadays. Yeah, who knows?

Tracy Fensome: 00:11:42

You can.

I mean, it does question the type of training and it does question the worth that that person puts into their work, you know, because there is a lot involved. It's. There's so much involved and such a big responsibility with per makeup, you know, it's not something that you can.

I'll just go and get it lasered off. People, you know, most people don't have that attitude. So, yeah, that's, that's another.

That's a big path for me to talk about investment in oneself and, and to pay the right amount of money. But you're right, sue, there are, you know, but there are people that start out like my training academy.

When somebody's trained with me, it takes about six months to do all the training. And then when they launch themselves, I say to them, you know, start as you mean to go on.

Do not be cheap, because that's how you'll be perceived all the time. But be fair, because you are still growing. So we set, we. So where.

Depending where they are in the country, we set an amount and then they do it for about six months and they'll say, right, your price needs to go up because you've now spent more time, more training and investing in yourself. But that doesn't always happen with others. So, yeah, on average, you're looking at.

I mean, my brows when I used to be in London were six to seven hundred pounds. I don't work in London anymore. They're now 495 and I'm still busy with them. Although there are people that are a lot lower than me.

You know, it's just.

Sue Davies: 00:13:03

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's that whole thing about knowing your worth, isn't it, and knowing the value of the skills that you've got.

And, and I think it's also, you know, there's a. There's a big comment to be made on the fact that if you, if you buy cheap training and you charge cheap prices. It's.

Is it because you don't have confidence in what the, you know, in what the skill is that you have?

Because you know you've had possibly substandard education and you know therefore that you're not doing the best job, so you then don't want to charge high prices because you're not delivering 100% service and 100% quality.

Tracy Fensome: 00:13:40

Yeah, yeah, it does. You're absolutely right. And it does come back.

You know, you mentioned about your niche to begin with and also we have mentioned it yet, but your ideal client, avatar, that, that word that most people cringe at because. And they don't think they need to do it, but it does come back to that.

And for the training side, whether it's beauty or nails or makeup or injectables, you're always going to have those people that will look for the lower end course because the attitude will be, what if it doesn't work out? It doesn't matter if I've just lost a couple of thousand. I mean, it does to me.

Money's money and, and those type of people are not generally our clients. The clients that come to us are the ones that want to invest because they're ready to make that career change.

They, they do want more time freedom and this industry does give them more time freedom.

Sue Davies: 00:14:25

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:14:26

But you've got to work hard for it.

So it does go back to that ideal client and what they're, what they're thinking, why, you know, most of the time they're thinking they're going to make a lot of money. They just pay cheap to get the training.

They can go out there, make a lot of money, but they end up making, I don't like making statements, but we see a lot of mess, hence why we're getting the laser tattoo removal machine.

Sue Davies: 00:14:47

Yeah, well, this is, yeah, this is, I mean, we just talked about that, weren't we, before we came on?

Tracy Fensome: 00:14:51

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:14:51

And it, and it's difficult, isn't it?

And I think, you know, like the fact that you see now so many tad, like, like sort of proper skin tattoo artists, not like PMU tattoos, but when you see those artists actually now having like laser removal within their services, you know, I mean, that speaks another whole thing about the amount of people that do tattoos. I mean, one, my, my niece's husband is a tattoo artist. He's an amazing tattoo artist, but he's literally just had, I think it was his chest.

I mean, he, he's covered in them. He's had his scalp Tattooed. He's, he's. He literally is a walking tattoo. He hasn't got his face done, but he had his.

He wanted to change his chest tattoo. So he's literally undergone.

Tracy Fensome: 00:15:34

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:15:35

Removal of the whole of his chest because he wanted to change it. And I suppose then it becomes like a life option, doesn't it?

And I suppose that, you know, because we have the option of laser removal or saline removed as well. Don't we have that within.

Tracy Fensome: 00:15:49

That's right. But.

Sue Davies: 00:15:51

But when you've got that option, does it make it easy to just keep changing things? I don't know. I. This. It just fascinates me as a subject because I. It took me. I had. I had one. I've got one tattoo on me which is.

Well, you can't even see because I've got me with me blurs on, but I've got one tattoo on me and I had that done when I was 55. It took a long time to have that done and. And I'll never change it.

And I can't have any more done because I don't know what else I want done and if I don't know, I can't do it. And the same with, like. With like all the pmu. I'd love to have my eyeliner done, but what if I don't like it in a couple of years time?

It's like I like changing things all the time.

Tracy Fensome: 00:16:28

Yeah. And I think that that comes down to.

I mean, with body tattoos, I'm not an expert in that, but I do know people, including my son and daughter, that have got them. And they got them young and I wasn't happy about it and I just. And now my son has said, mum, can you tattoo this? This sort of. What were those called?

The, like, tribal.

Sue Davies: 00:16:48

Oh, yeah. Like the Celtic.

Tracy Fensome: 00:16:50

I don't know why I did that. And I said to him, told you so, but he's now wanting that taken off.

So, I mean, you know, to be fair to body tattooists and makeup, I mean, you can't control what people are going to feel or do, whether they relate to it later in life. Thank God there is laser, but I suppose I don't. It's not the tattoo artist's job to say, is it? Do you really want a butterfly?

Sue Davies: 00:17:11

No. I know this is. It isn't.

Tracy Fensome: 00:17:12

Are you still going to like this in years to come? What does it mean to you? How much does it mean to you? I mean, it's not their job, is it? But, you know, good consultation in, in any industry.

Is important, but particularly going back to the PER makeup with, like, eyeliner, if you wanted me to do a wing eyeliner liner on you with some pixelation, it looked beautiful, but you might not want it later in life. So it's really up to the PER makeup, a good consultation to find out why. What's their lifestyle, are they looking understanding?

And I think surgery at some point.

Sue Davies: 00:17:42

Yeah. And I think as well is that people, you know, I think because it's had a. Because it had the S at the beginning for so long, like, and you had.

There's that semi permanent element to it. I think people do think it's just going to disappear, you know, I mean, I have my eyebrows done years ago and it hasn't disappeared.

And I've had a bit of saline removal done on them and it's still. And it's still there. But we did that to kind of lift because the color had gone a bit gray. So I had them done, had the bit of removal and it.

And it kind of lifted the gray out a little bit, which was good. But. But, you know, they're probably there now forever. They're not going to go anywhere.

If they've been here for like, nine, I think they've been here about eight years, they're not going anywhere and it's fine. But I think, you know, as long as people understand that, and it is. It comes down to that consultation, doesn't it? And if you.

And if you haven't had great training.

Tracy Fensome: 00:18:30

It comes down to that skill as well.

You know, a good makeup artist, or let's say an eyebrow specialist, you know, like HD brows and all those that were, you know, they should be able to look at the face shape and the. To know where the bone is, what's going to. What's going to suit and advise the client. So, like, for you, Sue, I'm looking at your brows.

Your brows look like a good shape for you. You've not done anything unusual. You've not lifted out. You haven't got Spock, whatever his name was in Star Trek with those brows, remember?

Yeah, you haven't got those tail ends. Clients asked me to lift their tail ends out towards their temples. Well, I won't do that. I mean, I've got ethics.

But there are people walking around like that. So it really is down to a good consultation and looking at something thinking, well, this is going to fade in time.

One of the questions is it like, will this fade? And you go, this will fade in time. Because I use the best pigments. This isn't an ink and it will fade in time.

It just go very, very natural, but it might just stay there.

So you make sure you give them something that's going to suit their face so they're not going to be, you know, in a situation five, ten years later where they think that we should never had it done. But there will be lots of those, there's that lots of them happening now because of, you know.

Sue Davies: 00:19:41

The choices made when maybe they were sort of like 20, 25 and as they're maturing and their life has changed slightly and they've now got rather large ombre eyebrows or whatever, whatever the trend was, but they had them. Yeah, it's. But, but it's true though, isn't it? It's like you.

And you do have to consider these things, but like we say, like, when you have, if you have a good quality education and you understand the service that you're providing fully with good ethics and good integrity, then your clients are going to understand what it is that they're committing to, isn't it?

And I think, and also like you say, like that ideal client avatar thing is making sure you're talking to the right people and that you're getting the right people on your bed that are going to come and want to be, be receiving that service and they understand fully what it is they're going to get. Because you've got to make that right connection, haven't you?

Tracy Fensome: 00:20:31

Yeah. And that's down to good training as well.

Whether it's at college, whether it's at private academies, when somebody embarks on a new career, let's say, or they're upgrading, that is really down to the trainer, in my opinion, that's drilled into them. To be that type of person within their own business or if they work in a salon or a spa, that they have those ethics, really.

Sue Davies: 00:20:55

Because I think with pmu the customer isn't always right, are they?

And I think having the confidence to be like you say, you know, if they've got those eyebrows that are kind of got the wrong angles on them just because the client saw it somewhere and thinks it's a good idea now it's, you know, having the right. Having the confidence in your skill and your abilities to say, actually there's an alternative.

Tracy Fensome: 00:21:17

Sometimes you have to say to them, you know, if you've tried hard drawing the browse on a consultation and they've come in with sperm brows, we call them.

Hope this doesn't offend anybody, but they literally have the little bubble at the front and then they hook it over and they, they bring you a picture of like a really nice brow and you look at them think, well, I can do that for you. I'm going to draw it on. You draw it on. They don't like it, they want to rub it off and then they want to draw the sperm brows back on.

And I just, I've just like, if it doesn't work, I say I'm not the artist for you. You know, we're all different, all artists are different. Then maybe you should maybe, you know, just get some more consultations in.

So it's not, it's saying no. And again, that's where integrity and ethics come in, isn't it? It for that.

Sue Davies: 00:21:56

Yeah.

And I, because I do think that if you, because if you do it to me, the only reason that you would say yes to those clients is for the money and, and because you want to make. And because you're a people pleaser, I suppose.

And neither of those are good reasons to put, browse on someone's face that you know that even maybe in a month's time or even four years time, whenever it may be, they're going to probably have regrets and that, and then that's going to take your name with that regret, isn't it? And I think that's where we have to be careful.

Tracy Fensome: 00:22:27

It is true. It is true.

Sue Davies: 00:22:28

Reputation is everything. And, and if you, and if you, if you do, if you make choices on behalf of your clients that don't suit them, your reputation is at risk, I think.

Tracy Fensome: 00:22:42

Yeah, yeah, your reputation, credibility, that's, that's, you know, it's important to have that. If you want to be in the game for a long time and you want that longevity, then you start as you mean to go on as I, my students.

You start as you mean to go on, put your stall out how you me, you mean to be seen. But you have to almost imagine you're five years in, already into your business and you have to ooze that, you know, don't mislead people.

But you have to positively put yourself in some shoes, some different shoes, and look that way.

Sue Davies: 00:23:13

Yeah, that kind of fake it till you make it thing, isn't it? Which is, I mean, we don't really want to fake it because you should, you should have that knowledge to back it up.

But it's kind of, it's sort of like it's faking that, that confidence in what you're doing, isn't it? Because you've got the skill, you've if you.

If you've gone through training similar to what Tracy does, where you, you know, you're going to be there for months doing this training, which is what you should be doing. When you're breaking someone's skin, you need to have confidence in what you're doing.

And if you come out of there with good core skills and then you just. You just need to kind of have the bravado to kind of go, actually, now I'm a really solid business and I can make this a solid business.

And it is about bravado, isn't it? Probably more than faking it, really. It's just.

Tracy Fensome: 00:23:53

And it is about that trainer or your coach or whoever's trained you is to have that belief in you. And if they've. If they have belief in that they're a good trainer and they care about their clients, I. E.

Students, then they should give you that pep talk. They should. All along, even from day one, they should be, you know, positioning it all the time. It is hard.

When I finished, I was qualified with permanent makeup. Within three months, I put my head down and I did 50 case studies. I worked my ass off. And my work back then was. When I look at it now, it was.

But it was passable. But when I got my pep talk and I'm fairly confident, and she said, right, you're going to get better. You're going to get better.

You keep practicing every day. You practice. Not on your clients, but you practice, then you do your clients and you start as you mean to go out and. And it's. It.

It stayed with me all those, what, 20 years ago, and I now tell my students the same thing. And those ones that I put that into their brains, they are successful.

They have been able to give up the job they weren't in, they didn't like, and they have successful businesses, obviously, through hard work and determination. But it's that belief system, isn't it, Believing you really want this career change, you really want to learn this, you're passionate about it.

You love everything about it. It's having that belief system. But if somebody's like, a bit wobbly, they're not sure. Don't know.

If I want to spend that amount of money with you, Tracy, and your team, then they're not for us, you know?

Sue Davies: 00:25:25

Yeah, absolutely. So moving on from that, so you've, like, alongside all of the PMU stuff that you do as well, that is something else that you do is.

Is being an advocate for building businesses that support your life and that you don't have it the other way around, where the business is kind of running you. Because we've both, both been there, haven't we?

Tracy Fensome: 00:25:44

We have.

Sue Davies: 00:25:45

And so what kind of mindset and operational shifts do you think people need to make in transition? And how do you now kind of help your clients to do like your students and clients to do the same?

Tracy Fensome: 00:25:56

That's a really good question. It's. And it's a really like wide question because it depends what industry people are in and where they're at.

Are they now tech, are they a salon owner or they're working in a salon, or are they going into aesthetics or per makeup? I think the important thing here for anybody listening is that it's not going to happen overnight.

It is a process of learning your skill, gaining that credibility, you know, growing your client base, looking at your revenue, what you're earning, the time, you know, your outgoings and everything, and then look at where you can make adjustments. So I suppose if I just go back a minute, I'm going to rewind on this a little bit.

So, I mean, the reason why I had three and a half jobs, a weird one to say.

When I left, When I started 20 years ago, I had about three and a half jobs and I was like in this, in the beauty stuff, I was teaching at college, I was teaching different things at the college. So I've always been a teacher that part time. And then I had like, that was part time Saturdays and some evenings.

Then I had two other jobs where I was working in salons. I was doing spray tanning, doing a bit of beauty being, doing a bit of everything else.

And my earnings were okay, but as a single mum, it wasn't brilliant and I had the mortgage to pay as well. Bear in mind, I had left corporate sales to go into this industry.

I was on a very, very high salary, but the demands and the stress was like unbelievable. I loved it, but it was unbelievable and you can't maintain that.

And because I'd always loved the skin and beauty stuff, that's why I went into the industry. So I went from a really big salary to a small salary, but I sort of knew that I was going to take this somewhere else.

But as a single mum, I really needed to up my game and, and, and work out the money how I could do that. And for me, with my main responsibilities were two teenagers and a mortgage, I knew I needed to earn quite a lot more.

So that's where I decided to enter into the per makeup industry back there. And I already had it Planned out.

Well, not already I planned it out how when I get good at many people do I need to work on a week and where is the time freedom going to come to make sure these teen. Then they weren't unruly but I had to keep an eye on them where what the. These teenagers are up to.

If I'm working in London or I'm working in Northampton or whatever, I need to, I need to be around and keep control here.

So I think for people, they have to think about where they're at now and where they want to be and if they want to stay where they're at then, and their earning potential is just what they do right now, then they might and they love it. Then they might need to look at how they can earn something. I'm going to say semi passive.

I don't truly think anything really is completely passive, but how they can utilize their skill to create something semi passive.

If they're wanting to upgrade their skill or do something else, then they've got to seriously look at is this going to give them the growth they need? Does it make them feel great thinking about, about embarking on a new career or bringing in a new skill to the salon or their solo business?

And what's the earning?

So first of all, the passion, the desire you need in terms of continuity and going over those peaks and troughs as you do in business, you need to have that passion to purpose in what you're going to be doing. Then secondary really is the earning potential. It's part of. Of it's part of it all, but it's secondary. What's the earning potential and how.

If time freedom is important to you, how are you going to do that if not now, how you're going to achieve that in four or five years? So I, I'm. I had a mentor that helped me as well.

It wasn't a coach or one official coach or something, it was just somebody who'd been in business a lot and I sat down with them and spoke to them about what I was hoping to achieve, gone through the divorce, taken on the mortgage, how I could work this. And I pretty much had it in my head already, but they helped me plan it out and you can do it alone.

But I would say to people that are really keen right now to change careers or up their skill and earn more money, but have time freedom might not necessarily be for children, it just might be they want it more time for them, you know, why not holidays.

Sue Davies: 00:30:21

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:30:21

Plan it out, have a look, sketch it down get it out of your head, write it down and then, then start looking at your finances and where potentially if finance is your main thing, where, where you're going to earn that and how you can earn it. Because what can happen is people can jump into something, pay a lot of money out very, very quickly, then realize it's not for them.

And I've not had many of those in the perm makeup or the skin industry. But part and parcel of my job as a trainer is to find out really why they're wanting to do this. What do they want from the outcome?

When do they want the outcome?

So I would say, you know, be honest with yourself and take a good look, look, look at, you know, almost like a bird's eye view of you and your life and where, where you want it because life goes quickly and we are all able to plan out things and achieve whatever we want.

Sue Davies: 00:31:12

Isn't I think as well, like with, you know that you've got to work out, haven't you?

Like, you know, if to, to achieve that, like you were saying, like with the outcome, to achieve outcome B, you need to earn, I don't know, say another thousand pound a week.

Tracy Fensome: 00:31:26

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:31:27

And you've got to work out, you know, is, is doing nails maybe because like now, now's is a great one because I think it's an entry, it's a very easy to enter part of the industry. So many people come into industry that way and then they're charging and it is. And that literally is time for money.

You're charging like 30 pound for a set of nails for an hour or.

Tracy Fensome: 00:31:45

Like the lashes as well, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:31:46

Yeah, lashes, very.

Tracy Fensome: 00:31:47

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:31:48

I mean, although lashes is. Yes. I mean but they are, they're very much time, time for money led, aren't they?

Whereas when you start getting up into the higher end things and you start getting more into skin and PMU and aesthetics, all of a sudden you have, you can charge much, much more for it, which I think is why it becomes, it's become a very attractive onward step for people because Instead of charging 30 pound an hour, you can suddenly charge 150, 200 pounds for an hour. Now, depending what you, I mean I'm ballpark figures.

But you can suddenly start earning significantly more, which is why so many people want to go into it.

And I think, you know, having having been in our tech for a long time and having had a full service salon, it is, you know, the, the things where we earned the money were definitely not at the light, were definitely not nails, definitely not lashes. For us, waxing was quite profitable.

And then, and then, then when you start getting into skin and you started doing some of the like the higher end facials and that, that was, that's where the money is.

And, and I think that we all need to kind of consider that if you, if you're doing nails then maybe you actually do really want to consider doing something else.

It makes you a more rounded professional above anything else and it kind of, you know, follows that passion for helping people feel great about themselves. And so much of what we do is about making women, particularly also guys or anybody, anybody else of any other gender.

But, but it's about making people feel good about themselves and making them feel confident and making them feel valued and any other way you can do that is going to bring you a better income level other than just sitting doing people's nails.

Tracy Fensome: 00:33:28

Yeah, I mean I get my lashes done, I get my nails done and we generally sort of chat you know, and, and they will always ask me questions though about what else they could do and it's not for me to throw ideas at them. But really when I think about the last few years with them, the lash ladies stayed the last. She's lash and nails and that's it.

And she doesn't want to change it. And remember everybody's circumstances are different to why they would want to change it.

But one of the other ladies I go to, she's an all rounder, she does everything really well but she now wants to for her own self, she wants to embark a bit more on skin and electricals. Skin, electrical, so she can start making a real difference to her clients. So we've trained her, we've trained her in that area.

But the biggest fear she had was am I going to lose clients? Because now I've got to make room for the client, new clients, but also maybe upgrade the client she's got.

And I said, well you have, you have to give up some time, you know, if you're going to be like pushing this. So there are lots of opportunities there for people in the skin but also with the perm makeup up, you just got to be.

This industry is hard to not be jack of all trades because you know, a salon owner might be, not necessarily a hairdresser maybe, but a salon owner or somebody working in a salon. When I had my salon and about you. So when I employed therapists I need them to do all quite a few things.

I need them to be qualified and skilled in nails, lashes, absolutely panning. Oh, then we trained them in laser, then we trained them in hd. You do have to be a bit of an all rounder, don't you?

So there's nothing wrong with that.

But if people are really thinking they want to earn it is the point that I love being in this industry but I do want to do some treatments that are more high, high end in terms of earning.

Then yes, you've got the, more of the, like you said, the facial, the specialists and facials, electricals or just become a great facialist, a really good facialist that makes.

And then you've got the perm makeup line and not forgetting you've also from that you've got paramedical tattooing, you've got the breast, you know, the, got the areolas, you've got the burn scars that yeah, the world is their oyster basically. But it, there's no magic wand.

They've got to put the hard work in and they've got to really feel it and want, want to do this, but the potential is there.

So we have trained, we've trained a lot of different people from different backgrounds, but we have trained quite a few therapists and they've, some of them have stayed in the jobs they're in, in the salon because they like doing that, they're employed but at weekends they do the perm makeup.

Sue Davies: 00:36:00

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:36:00

So, you know, so they, they've gone from earning maybe 15 to 20 pounds an hour as a good therapist to potentially earn in, I don't know, let's just one lady, 295 over two hours.

Sue Davies: 00:36:12

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:36:13

So that's the attraction you see, that's it, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 00:36:16

And I think as well, like you were saying about that therapist that you know who's trained with you now and her concern over losing clients and, and it isn't necessarily about losing clients, it's about, about attracting the new clients that are in the services you want to provide.

And as, and over time, you know, it's funny actually, the lady I go to, the therapist I go to to have massage and we were talking about this the other day and she and I, we no longer do nails.

But she still does nails for a few clients that don't even know that she stopped doing nails because she just, she's never said to anybody I'm stopping doing nails. But she's just as, as people have left, she's just not replaced them as now clients.

And so she's now got two or three people that she just does nails for kind of as a sort of like a Hush hush part of her business that she just doesn't promote anymore. But she still, she doesn't want to lose those clients. They've been with her for a really long time. She likes their company.

I think that's sort of like. And that's also an important thing as well, isn't it?

Especially, especially with things like now as you do build up a very different rapport to someone that you'd Maybe see for PMU once every year, 18 months. Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:37:26

Unless they're having another, unless they're then having their eyeliner done or the lips done. But really, you know, you, it is, that's the great thing there sue.

Like with, with the lashes, with the nails, with, with the things, you know, those type of treatments in a salon. They, although they've got the lower end like the WAC you mentioned, the wax in the wax in the HD brows. All of that brought in more revenue.

It was that regular revenue compared to somebody having a laser, then they're gone or having the pert makeup, then they're gone. So it's still a great, it's still good to keep those skills if you want those regulars. But you can to top up your income, bring in the more high end.

Sue Davies: 00:38:03

Stuff because you come busy. This is.

Because the thing is, is that even if you think, if you, if you train, because this is one of the things and actually, and maybe this is a conversation to be had because it's one of those things that I've always kind of watched PMU just think as much as like yes, to a degree, you know, in quotes. It's easy money once you're trained and you're confident in what you're doing. It's easy money to a degree but.

And it's easy to maybe get yourself busy for the first six months and then like most people you'll be busy doing that so you forget to do the marketing and then, and then you hit the wall of you've got no clients and all those clients that you've done you're not going to see for at least another year. And so you end up, don't you. I mean it's, I would imagine marketing a PMU business must actually be quite a challenge. Unlike other challenges now.

Tracy Fensome: 00:38:52

It's a big challenge for people now. But it's easier because I mean go back to in my day when I did it, I had 15 clinics in on the go. They didn't own them.

I went to 15 different areas, Northampton, Oxford, London.

Every month I was working for one day doing per makeup I had to get out there and put it this way, expose myself to salon owners by knocking on their doors and go it in. You know, it was on foot, going round, seeing who, what I liked and who, where I would like to work and that was my getting my exposure out there.

And marketing was then yes, you needed a website definitely, but it was about leaflets, it was about open days. I mean I don't even know if people do open days anymore in salads, but it's about open days. I used to draw on people.

They'd come, I'd draw and that's how I built up my, my name.

But for those starting now and even me, the marketing, this is one of the things that it gets me at times is like so many courses are out there and it's all about the skill. They're not teaching people how to start a business or kickstart their business because it's about traction.

You know, as soon as they start their training they should be starting their marketing as well. They've got to run alongside and a lot of, a lot of people don't want to think about it because they just want to do, just want to learn this.

But it's so important because otherwise it could take a good 18 months to get any, any traction unless they start immediately. So marketing now though is easier, isn't it? Sue?

You've got social media, YouTube, I mean what we got, you know, tick tock, we've got, we've got everything and you can almost cut, you can almost create long, long, long and short form videos is, there's so much to do but not everybody can do it.

Sue Davies: 00:40:40

No, this is it.

And I think sometimes, you know, I mean we, we and I think this is probably like a lot of the things that we've kind of had conversations about along with a lot of other people is about this, this whole lack of understanding of what it takes to run a business.

Because people that come into the industry have quite often come into it because they've seen something on tv, they've seen something think on tick on well nowadays on Tick Tock but previously maybe on Instagram or on Facebook and they've seen influencers and people being super successful and they want a bite of that cherry kind of thing.

And but when they come in, they get, they learn the skill and then they don't realize that that skill then takes a huge amount of practice before you're confident. And then actually you've also got to run a business. And Carl Hinder, you know, Carl, don't you like business coaching.

And you know, I remember doing podcasts with him and he actually said, said you know what we, what we have, when that happens, you get a therapist who wants to do like have everything.

You get a therapist with a set of keys and it's like actually that is it because you know, you can be the most amazing therapist you could, you can have clients walking, you know, out, queuing out the door.

But if you then get a premises or you then get your own business if you don't understand the mechanics of how that works and you know, like I was just saying, like that marketing cycle, you can't just go, go marketing bang. Oh, I've got a load of clients in my list and forget about it. Marketing is perpetual. It doesn't ever go away.

And, and equally doing your books doesn't ever go away. You know, making sure that you've got the best deal on your electric never goes away. Or there's, there's, there is so much to it.

Making sure that you've got the right licenses, that you've got the right insurers. I mean it is, it is endless, isn't it?

And I think now quite a lot of us are coming to a place where actually we have this knowledge and it's actually we need to start putting this out there for people to understand that to be successful isn't just about providing good treatments.

Because it like we're now, I'm sure it's around 65 to 70% self employed industry now and probably half those people don't really understand how to run their business effectively.

Tracy Fensome: 00:42:44

No, no.

And there is a lot of people out there saying that you know, work straight up, it's gone very quiet and, and maybe that, that area or maybe the treatment or you know, maybe that is the case, case it has dried up. But it, it's really, you know, when I ask these people like we're talking about like Facebook groups, you know, what are you doing? What, what?

Okay, let's look at your low hanging fruit, your clients that you've got that already believe in you. What are you doing to market to them every month? You know, are you sending them funny emails every month?

They're, they're not, they're not doing anything. So there is, there is. Although, although the, the platforms are there for a lot, a lot of people, for everybody. It's, it, they're not being utilized.

I mean you can do a lot without having to spend on ads. You know, get your Google listing done, get that 100, get your little website out you know, start networking.

There's so many other things you can do to start building that traction. And we try, I tried, I do try with those people that don't want to go down the mentoring side with business.

I like give them, you know, all these, these bit information on, on the kickstart and they get videos kickstart your business and then it's up to them, they go off and maybe do it themselves or they don't do it at all. But really, I mean anybody embarking on a new career or bringing in, bringing in a new skill, that's a big and has been a big investment.

Like my makeup courses are a big investment for people. I say to them right from the beginning, right, we're going to start now, let's get started. We're your business this.

And they're like, let's, you know.

Sue Davies: 00:44:16

But people don't get it, do they?

So I mean I've just been, I'm just in process of launching like this a whole new thing business visibility boosters which is about getting all your Google profile, you have Apple business connects and all of your like, you know, being like the, the not social side of online world working for you because that's so important because funny enough not everybody looks, not everybody looks on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok for a business.

There's a whole lot of other places people look for and then also getting all of the webs, like if you have got a website getting all your like your meta titles and your SEO descriptions and stuff sorted.

So I've now, because I know there's very few people, I think myself and Helen Moore are the only ones that really talk about, especially the website stuff we do. People just don't get it. People don't understand.

Me and Helen have been shadows for years doing this stuff ourselves and, and people don't necessarily do that. Yeah, I know.

Well, this is, I know we were talking about, weren't we at Excel and we was, there was a big conversation around the table that night about socials and stuff and how not always effective they are. And it's like, you know, the more I talk to people the more I realize that people just don't understand.

You know, it's, we're an industry that gets overwhelmed by tech because we're, we're creative and we want to make people feel good. And so tech for most people is a bit of a taboo subject and they don't want to go down that road.

And, and so if I can take a bit of that ah, out of it, then why not?

It's and the same as, you know, like all the stuff that we all talk about, about, about business and about how you can market yourself and how you can, you know, your ideal client avatar and we, we need to do more of it, don't we? Because people don't. They don't know. They don't realize. They don't know, do they? I think that's the difficulty.

Tracy Fensome: 00:46:01

Yeah, I think it, I think more of that is needed because it's something that has been pushed aside for a long time because I get clients saying to. I get student clients saying to me, oh, should I go on TikTok or should I. Do you think I should do an Instagram account as well as a Facebook?

And they forget about what else is out there. I mean Google is one of the largest search engines and I'll be honest, I mean I don't get much work from social media. It's.

It's an awareness I put out there, put myself out for an awareness. But most of my leads come from either referral or people have gone on Google or they've gone on my website. It's old school stuff really.

Sue Davies: 00:46:39

I'm just doing well.

I've just started doing some workshops on online visibility and the, and the stats are it's something like 80 of people's first place they go to to look for any new service in their local area or even nationally or internationally. The first place they go, Google, 80 of people and, and it is when you, when you start looking and Facebook and stuff are far behind it.

They're probably about 40, something like that. But it's, it's, it's not a lot. It really isn't a lot. And, and when you. I've got a whole stats thing I need.

I've got to pull it into some kind of slide.

Tracy Fensome: 00:47:11

But I've got like to see that. Let me know what you.

Sue Davies: 00:47:15

I've got it. I've got it sitting on, it's actually sitting on my, it's open on my Google at the moment on my browser because I've got to do something with it.

But it's, it's quite staggering like. And Google is predominantly the biggest thing still and it.

Where people will search first and it is because I'm so, as I'm saying it says 40 but I think it's like these are from different places and the, the block of all the different platforms.

Yeah, they fought this but there's a lot of the percentages don't quite work because it is Things like, you know, Google will take like 70 and then Facebook is 40 which obviously doesn't work work. Then you've got all of the other ones as well.

But I suppose it's just people, it's like they've done a, a 1 to 10 or whatever of what people will search through and so everyone's put their information of how they'd rate those different platforms. So the percentages. Yeah, necessarily out of 100. You know what I mean? It's like first choices and second choices, I suppose.

Tracy Fensome: 00:48:06

Yeah. I think that, I think though those that you mentioned are the essentials to, to get, get, getting found.

But before they start doing all the tick tock or whatever, you know, or all the other things, I think that they're just the essential. Maybe it seems, maybe to some of the younger ones it seems quite boring. Let's just set ourselves up.

It might seem boring whereas TikTok and Instagram videos seem a bit more exciting and, and they're great. But these essentials, I mean I don't understand all, all of the side of it.

I know you do a lot more of it and my partner does it for me but it is really, it's, it's key to being found, isn't it? The more you can do out there like your blogs, I mean good old blogs work well still, don't they with huge.

Sue Davies: 00:48:47

But it's because of all the. It's.

You know, there's a thing called keywords that Google crawlers look for and in a blog, even if you do it without realizing, if you're, if you write a blog and put it on your website and you talk about a skincare treatment that you offer or a facial that you offer or a nail service that you offer, there's, you're going to hit keywords because you're going to be talking about nails and cuticles and color and this shape now or that that particular product and you're going to hit keywords without even realizing it.

And then if you actually get a bit more clever and you use some of the tools we have available now to source keywords, then like you can fill your website with keywords that the Google crawlers love. If you don't know what a Google crawler is, it's like it's just a piece of tech that comes within this Google platform that reads everything.

It reads every page of the Internet every time you hit search.

I mean it's is staggeringly clever but it's looking for words and if you're looking, you know, if you're looking for browse, like Ombre Black Ombre Browse in Luton. You're going to find Tracy because she's. I would imagine with Mark doing her stuff, is going to have, like, he's going to have good SEO.

She's got a website, she's got her Google profile, she's got her Facebook and stuff. So it's all of those things are going to ramp her up. And this is. It's all simple stuff, isn't it? But.

Sorry, I think it's simple stuff, but not everybody else does. I should.

Tracy Fensome: 00:50:08

Yeah, well, it's also. Some people just don't want to do it, you know, I don't want to do it.

So I do bits on Google and blogs and stuff, but the rest are just like, I might pass it over to you now, Sue.

Sue Davies: 00:50:19

Yeah, I know. I have a whole new business just doing this, doing that.

Tracy Fensome: 00:50:24

I'm gonna nudge you. LAUGHTER well, there's. I'm gonna say, sue, take this over for me.

Sue Davies: 00:50:27

Yeah, I know. Well, I've. I'm just doing some. Because I only been.

I've literally just in the process of launching it all, so I'm just doing some sort of beta work with a couple of. With some of our friends, actually, just to kind of get this sorted and get it lined up properly.

Tracy Fensome: 00:50:40

But.

Sue Davies: 00:50:41

But yeah, it's out there so people can buy my services now. Anyway, we're not here to talk about me, really, and all the things I'm doing, but it, but it does. It kind of crosses over because it's all stuff.

It supports. It supports all of those people coming into industry already in industry that just don't realize that there's alternative ways of working.

So maybe taking courses with you, but looking at some of the things that I do look at, but we all. I think this is the thing I love about the group of people I've got around me currently, is that we all enjoy each other's company. We all.

We're all a bit older, probably, which is. But that means we have vast wisdom, it means we have vast experience. It means that, that we.

And I think as well, like, the nice thing with all of us that I know in my circle at the moment is that we all want to share and, and sometimes that's going to come at a cost for people.

But also we do give a lot of our time and energy and information freely and quite, you know, quite willingly on forums and groups and stuff, because we want to help people, we want our industry to be successful.

Tracy Fensome: 00:51:46

Yeah, yeah. We don't want to see it, you know, go down. I mean we want to keep it up there as, as, you know, one of the, it is one of the best industries.

I mean it proved during, I don't like, like mentioning this, but during COVID how much we got shut down, how for a year and a half how much money was lost and how much money the government lost. It's a thriving industry. And, and you know you get people, I'm slightly digressing people saying oh, it's a bit old now, isn't it having this done.

Oh, I think this, I think now isn't that important. I don't think many people have it anymore or do people really bother makeup anymore? I'm like, like yes, yes, it's a thriving industry.

It doesn't matter how many people are out there, how many competitors the, the, in these specific industries thrive. You know, they, they've always either gone through so many recess.

I mean I've been through, I'm sure you have sue, but through quite a few recessions. Yeah over time and we've survived and we've come out and I think isn't.

Sue Davies: 00:52:42

It this, that like the lips, is it the lipstick. Oh the lipstick theory or something is called, isn't it?

It's like that for, for many women the last thing they'll give up is their appearance kind of thing and they'll still find the money. Because the thing is, you know you can, you can save 2,000pound by not going on holiday, probably even more.

But you know, but, but to save, you know, if you, if you stop having your nails done, you're, you're not going to save massive amounts of money.

You know, if you, if you don't have those browse done, you're not going to save as much as if, you know, you sold, you didn't buy that 50, 000 pound car, you know.

And I think that it's when times are hard people, people lose the big purchases and they want something that's going to still make them reward or they're gonna, they need something to reward themselves with. And I think a lot of the services that we offer are small amounts of self reward which is why people, why women particularly will still keep coming.

Coming.

Tracy Fensome: 00:53:39

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:53:40

And as the stress levels rise, massage, massage levels go up.

Tracy Fensome: 00:53:43

Massage, reflexology, all of those.

That's why people, that's why spas are always booked out because you know, you can't just, most spars, you can't just ring and get booked in this weekend. They're just, they're just booked out because that's an element of our lives that we need, we need that nurturing.

Sue Davies: 00:54:00

Yeah. I mean it's nice.

Tracy Fensome: 00:54:01

People out there that will say no would they don't do anything like that. It's fine. But we do, we do need to look after ourselves more than anything I would say now.

Sue Davies: 00:54:09

Yeah, definitely.

Life is busy, you know, the world is this, you know, people, as people are taking on more and more responsibility, you know, like nowadays, I think, I know when like our kids are probably fairly similar ages, aren't they? I think. And yeah, you know, when we had our kids, like, you would have been corporate. I would have been, I was corporate at that time.

And, and I think. And we were sort of, you know, we were kind of Maggie's children really.

And so, you know, we all had like the big shoulder pads and you know, we were going to be like powerful women and all that kind of stuff as well. Yeah, yeah, the big hair a lot. Lots of like bright blue makeup and stuff. It was really bad.

But, but I think during those times, like we, we were becoming, we were the sort of the starts of where women are now in that, you know, we were the first ones that really worked because we, like, not because we chose to. We kind of really had to because we'd all taken on big mortgages and you know, we were the sort of the first big mortgage generation.

I feel when, I know there was an awful lot, like a lot of the baby boomers were like mortgage holders. But I think as it came down through the 80s, it was like, you know, you didn't go and rent, you couldn't rent anywhere.

So you just had to, you just went and bought a house. And so then interest rates went through the roof. Oh my God. But, but we ended up, we, this, we were the first ones that had like in work, daycare.

I can remember where I worked at Guy's Hospital. We had like the first daycare nursery come in. We were one of the first ones in the NHS.

nd that would have been about: 1991

We're kind of losing that stay at home mom thing again.

Tracy Fensome: 00:55:54

Can they, they just can't stay at home. They have to go back to work. At some point.

Sue Davies: 00:55:57

And it's like. And it's become now much more of a norm for women to, to not necessarily want to have it all, but maybe have to have it all. It's.

It's a really difficult place. And I think like, the services that we provide allow women a little bit of time out.

They allow them to have a bit of reflection time, a bit of me time, have that reward for all of that hard work they're doing as mums and as, as business owners or as employees, wherever they're working. And I, I don't.

I can't see us ever changing and how, you know, people will evolve and people will change and they'll move through different treatments that they have. But I think that if there's a connection to what we offer as human to human service, you can't be.

Tracy Fensome: 00:56:40

And there's more and more different services coming in. Different things are coming in all the time. Some are fads and some of that them are here to stay.

And those women and men that like having treatments will be the first to line up to try something new, you know, and all of that ultimately helps the business person, helps them still maintain their business, grow their business.

Sue Davies: 00:57:02

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 00:57:03

So we have to keep having these things done because we have a responsibility to those that we go to. Like, you know, it's. A lot of them are solo businesses, you know, whether it's at home or in a tiny little salon or they're, you know, that.

Sue Davies: 00:57:16

I know. I've just been, I've just been helping a lady. We've been having a few conversations because she's. And she's in a place looking for a new property.

I haven't heard from her for a little while actually.

She was phoning me going, oh, she just keeps giving me updates, which has been absolutely wonderful of like the different places that she's trying to find.

But she's solo and she's trying to find a, a suitable salon venue for her as a solo because the place she's been in has been there for years and years and years, but she's realized there's a, like there's a different world out there that she could be having, driving. And so like now she's trying to source like the ideal place. And it's. I've been kind of help, like having a few conversations for.

Just trying to help her out a little bit because. And it is this. There's, there's. She. She wants to take all her clients with her and you know that, that she's.

She's still, even though she's been in industry like 30 odd years and she's still so excited by what is going to enable her to do and how it's going to enable her to help her clients and give them an even better service which will make them keep wanting to come back for more. I do love it and it is, she's, she's mainly beauty. She's like old school beauty.

So she trained with like the white dress and the white shoes and everything and she's like proper old school beauty and she doesn't really, she doesn't really do anything that's that. She doesn't do anything that, that spectacular kind of an advanced stuff or anything like that. She's not aesthetics or pmu.

I don't think she's very, she's very much old school beauty and I love it.

She's got clients that have been with her forever and she doesn't provide the biggest treatment list but she's, she's making a good living out of it because she's, you know, she's, she understands, she, she does actually understand her business well, she understands her cost per treatment, all that kind of stuff. So she does a good job.

Tracy Fensome: 00:58:53

Yeah. It's understanding your business model, isn't it? What, what is your business model?

And, and whether, you know, do you have to jump on with everybody else because something's new out there and do it so you know, it is it, it's a good point there.

So it's a reminder to people to just decide do they need to bring on or take on that new treatment in their salon or you know, is the model working and if it's working well but they want to earn more money that it might be not always about getting more clients in. They might be at the capacity they want to work at.

It might be that there's other avenues, other ways they can bring in more revenue to still maintain that time freedom them.

Sue Davies: 00:59:32

Yeah. Which actually moves us quite segues is quite nicely into that semi passive stuff where you kind of alluded to earlier.

And so if people are going to look for that kind of semi passive thing as a, as an educ. Not an educator or even as an educator, whether you're a salon, a solopreneur, an academy owner.

What kind of things can we do as professionals to actually. Yeah. Get something where we aren't swapping time for money and where we're just swapping something we've done once and then putting it out there.

Isn't it really?

Tracy Fensome: 01:00:04

Yeah, I mean, you know Semi passive and not actually, you know, as you're sleeping, they say, and you're earning money, so to speak, somebody's buying something online.

Let's just say, for example, putting aside selling skin care in the salon and all those avenues which were required to be there, let's look at, get people to look at what actually their skills are and who would be suitable for it. So there's two ways.

Two ways I would say is if, if, if they've got a skill and they're good at that skill and they're passionate about that skill, then they could consider becoming a course creator. So that's a different type of ideal client avatar.

I mean, maybe their salon, some of their salon clients might want to change their career, but you know, they can tap into a huge industry of people that want, may want to learn that new skill. I'm just going to say, for example, and this is new cupping. Okay. Or you know, something like that.

It may well be they could, they could demo that, they could have videos, give people a taster for potentially an online course. Or it's, it's a video where they get a taste for it, but then they come and do the training within the salon with that particular person.

So that, that's, that's happening now. It happens now.

We've seen a lot of that where people don't necessarily want to open a big training center, but they want to utilize their expertise to, to find new type of clients.

salon, I mean, I sold that in: 2016

And we used to do a lot of surveys and things with people and there were people that just couldn't afford to come every month for that really special facial.

So we'd sell them the right type of skin care at home and we did videos to how to support those clients if you need to know how to look after your skin. And we used to put those videos up there and then if there's anything more extensive, we would there be small charge.

So I think people need to start looking at what expertise they've got and how they can utilize that online.

Sue Davies: 01:02:08

Yeah, especially for, for selling information.

Not necessarily selling the skill behind it, but selling the information like you say about skincare, you know, and you've got sites like Udemy that are, I mean, they are such a huge course platform. But, you know, so if you're listening, go and look at Udemy, you know, and please, I'd really strongly recommend not putting on there how to. Yeah.

How to be a qualified professional when you're not actually.

Tracy Fensome: 01:02:39

No, no things.

Sue Davies: 01:02:42

But, yeah, but you can look at kind of, you know, imparting information to a consumer on there because there's huge numbers of consumers, you know, talk about mindfulness, talk about, you know, how massage can help you and all that kind of stuff and just give people some, some and, And I can't think what the word is like taster information, isn't it?

Tracy Fensome: 01:03:02

Yeah, yeah. I'd also say YouTube, you know, YouTube is great for, for building traction. And it is. I mean, it is a pl. I mean, my partner's always on there.

If he's got to learn how to mend something, whatever it is in the house, it comes off it, he's learned it. But if you've got, you know, if you want to promote your salon and you.

And you don't have it on YouTube, I would consider that you don't have to give away a lot, but you can just give some information. And on there they've got links where they can just book you straight away. So, yes, it does take time to set these things up.

You can get somebody like sue to help you set these things up.

Sue Davies: 01:03:32

Absolutely.

Tracy Fensome: 01:03:33

But, you know, you just do a quick video in the day and some really key information about this new waxing stuff you've got or this new makeup pigment you're going to be using on clients and bam, there's the link they can book with you straight away. And in a way that is semi passive, isn't it?

I mean, somebody may be on that YouTube at night, you're fast asleep, in the morning, you've got new bookings.

Sue Davies: 01:03:53

Yeah. And I think as well is that people.

One of the things about YouTube that people forget, and this also applies to Pinterest too, is that they are search engines. Much like Google, Yahoo, Bing, all of the. All of the above. They are search engines.

So when you go on Google and you type in find me, whatever, I don't know, find me a brow artist near me. Google profile is going to come up first and then your website maybe.

But if you've got something on YouTube, because it is a search engine, the Google crawlers will search it and that will pull your salon into the Google results and it will increase your ranking.

Tracy Fensome: 01:04:33

Does it bring. Am I, am I imagining this? But when I've done Searches before. Do the videos sometimes appear at the top of.

Sue Davies: 01:04:39

Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. And on Google you can search for videos.

So if you want to see a video of like someone performing a browse service and let's face it, when you're, if you're going to be making a long term change to the, your appearance, you want to see that person working. You want to. And also, you know, this is, that, that is like a marketing opportunity, isn't it? That's what we need to see.

Tracy Fensome: 01:05:05

Amazing marketing tool, you know.

Sue Davies: 01:05:07

And also there's another thing that is a really important thing to do and you can put this on your website, put it on YouTube and then put the URL, like the link to YouTube onto your website as well.

If you've got a website or your Facebook, wherever, but put it on YouTube because you can do like just for people's accessibility and for people that are struggling with mental health issues and stuff, people like to see where they're gonna go. And so I have to say I'm really bad because I've been meaning to do this for ages and I still haven't done mine.

But doing a video of like walking up to your premises, opening the door and walking them through your premises, showing them where they're going to be going, showing them reception, walking through to the treatment room. I love those, you know, and show them because these things are really important to people.

It's part of their client journey, it's part of how they connect with you.

And if that's on YouTube, people like Tracy says people can be looking at 247 and then this is how, and if you can put that link on to book now from YouTube, like no brainer. It will take you, it will take you maximum of an hour to do that. And that could bring you so much more custom.

Tracy Fensome: 01:06:13

Yeah, it is, I mean go, it's, it's. We go sort of gone backwards a bit on in terms of the passive and semi passive, but all of it.

But even using, using, using the YouTube is, is still a form of semi passive earning.

Whether you're wanting to bring in, whether you're just wanting to bring in more clients by what you've just described, sue, or whether you actually want to bring in clients for something completely different. I mean, I'll be honest, I mean on YouTube we haven't done a lot for a while but in terms of academy we haven't done a lot.

We should do more because it's going to bring, you know, we've got new opportunities for people so we Want to get them out there, YouTube and Google first. Normally my first port call for bringing in the business but with the semi passive, I mean it depends on. In.

On each individual really doesn't it, in, in terms of business, in terms of what that. What they're confident to do or what, what. What they need to bring in.

It goes back to not just doing it for the sake of doing it, but what do you want to get out of it? You know what is it just more exposure or you're looking to actually earn some extra income from that? Yeah, but being.

But if they wanted to bring in more income and they have and they want to go into the educational side, then that's a very good way to bring in very good income, more revenue. So that's what we help people with as well at Signature Academy. Will I help them with it? Why not? Like all the skills you've got, you.

You've done training before you say?

Sue Davies: 01:07:41

Yeah, I have, yeah. I taught for years.

It's funny, I was when I was doing a work like I gave a workshop at our local networking the other day and it's the first time I've actually had to sort of like be in front of people and like talking about something for so long. It was really, really weird. And you had to kind of talk myself around into actually know you're just teaching. You used to do this all the time.

Yeah, I had to have a little chat with myself and have a little chat my subconscious on the way there. Just like give myself like a bit of a confidence boost because he kind of. I really have got out of the habit.

Tracy Fensome: 01:08:13

It.

Sue Davies: 01:08:13

And I used to love sort of like being up in front of a class and like demoing and stuff and it's just sort of. Yeah, I've got out of that habit. But, but education's an amazing way to, to bring extra income, isn't it?

I mean, I know it was like, you know, I used to work on a Monday, I just used to teach on a Monday and that could boost my salon turnover massively.

Tracy Fensome: 01:08:32

Yeah, yeah.

I mean even if they don't want to, even if people don't want to set up their own training school or become a course course creator or do anything from the salon or set up a training academy. They could also think about, hold on a minute, would I be good in college? What about if I go and do some teaching at night or weekends?

It's a good, it's a good feel for whether they want to embark on it fully or incorporate it into their business. You know, the colleges are all screaming out for really good, for good expertise.

You do need at least the AET teacher training to get you started and they would want to, if you want to stay there, they would want you to climb up with the teaching. But it's a great place to just try it, you know, just, just get in there and just, just do some teaching.

Sue Davies: 01:09:17

That's what I did as well is you know, if you, because if you are considering education, an education can be a really good another's like another string to your bow kind of thing. It can be a really great way of bringing in extra revenue. It's good for you.

And as well, I think like one of the benefits that we've both had from educating is just, it is such a reward of what you do once you've, when you can, you have that stuff in your head and you can stand there and go, oh, and this is how you do this and this is how you can be a wonderful professional. When you actually see the results of what that brings to people. I think it is one of the, one of the best things ever.

Tracy Fensome: 01:09:54

Yeah. And that's why you teach, isn't it?

I mean some people don't like it and they just, it's not for them but they've tried it but really for you know, long. Yeah, that's why I still teach. I mean I went to university teach school when I was 28 and I'm here I am this age teaching.

You just love to see the results and see people progress. That, that's the aim, isn't it? That, that that's it. I want to see you progress, I want to see you fly, I want to see you be successful.

Yeah, I love the teaching element of it.

So it's for people that really have, you know, maybe just, you know what I'd say to people is just go to some of these like one day teachers schools, teacher academies and just get a little taste. They might get you doing some role playing and just get a feel for something. But you've got to know what you're going to be teaching.

You've got to know it inside out confidently.

Sue Davies: 01:10:42

Absolutely, yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:10:43

You can't, whether you're teaching, teaching or whatever, you've got to, you've got to.

Sue Davies: 01:10:47

Know it inside out because I, I, for example, I, I went and did a course with somebody who's quite a, a well known industry educator and I took my husband with me and we were going to do. It was a massage upskill and she had the manual resting on his chest while she taught, which was nice.

And I know many other people have had similar experiences with that trainer. But that, you know, that's shocking. You shouldn't have to have a manual to explain to you what you're doing.

If you are teaching, you should actually know your subject so you can just talk about it.

And, and I think this is like, if you want to teach, can you talk about what you want to teach for 15 minutes without stopping, helping, can you do that? Because if you can't, you shouldn't be teaching.

Tracy Fensome: 01:11:34

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And, and get a proper teaching qualification.

I mean, some people might just be natural at that talking, but there's obviously a model, there's a framework to how one teaches.

Sue Davies: 01:11:49

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:11:50

And that's, I mean there's a lot, there's a lot in, in the industry, I'm going to say that our industry overall that are just, just doing the basic teaching and then doing teaching. But I think like anything, you should progress.

So start with your aet if you're thinking about teaching and then if you get, if you get the bug for it and you love it, then progress to learn more about how you can get the best out of your students and, and help them, you know, transform their lives. I mean, people come to you and they want a change in their life, they want to have a change of career or they want to learn a new skill.

So you have a huge responsibility as a trainer, educator.

Sue Davies: 01:12:27

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:12:27

So, yeah, I would say to people, consider that as an extra income if, if time freedom isn't necessarily the top of the list.

And it's not, let's be honest, when people are early in the, in early in the businesses or even midway, time freedom may not be the thing for them right now. What about you, Sue? But for me, time freedom is really important to me now at my age.

So that's why, you know, two days of the week I don't work anymore. But it depends where they're at.

But if they, if they're, if time freedom not that priority, then throw themselves into educating and, and, and bringing that skill in and really helping other people, it be so rewarding.

Sue Davies: 01:13:03

This is. And I think it depends, like you say, it depends on where you are in your life.

You know, when I was doing, when I was educating back, I think, well, I stopped teaching really probably around Covid because everything stopped. And when I came back to the salon, I just stopped. I just, it didn't really, I didn't restart it.

I think everything had got online and I think I, I was, I was struggling after Covid, I, I was.

Ended up in a salon on my own most of the time because my team, like most people disappeared off and gone self employed and so I kind of, I was on my own a lot and I had one person used to come in and I was exhausted and the thought of trying to restart education was, I, I couldn't, I literally just couldn't.

I knew I was going to be, we were going to be moving and I was going to be selling up and it was just, it was enough to keep, keep working the amount I was having to work to keep the salon going. And so for me at that time, it wasn't right.

But I spent probably, I don't know, probably about nine years teaching and I taught mainly for brands and did a little bit of independent education as well. Like I used to be like a satellite for two different training, like big training, like National Academies.

So I did teach quite a lot and I did love it, but it just, yeah.

And now I have, I have considered like going back because I, I could probably go and, and there's a couple of brands I could go back to and just go, oh yeah, can I come back and work? And they'd be like, yeah, okay. And I, and I do toy over every now and again because it, for me like now that'd be like an easy route to, to income.

But yeah, I just don't feel it's.

I, you know, I'm, I'm not in nails enough anymore now to, to be sitting teaching people because I'm not, I'm not current anymore and I feel that's important. My integrity would be compromised.

Tracy Fensome: 01:14:41

I think we move on, don't we? We, we, you know, we, we don't move away from it, but we just move on in terms of what we're wanting out of our lives and alignment.

Irrespective of age, people. I still think people should have a really good idea how they want their life to be.

Even if they're starting out, they're 25 or 30, just to have an idea of where they would like to be when they're 30 or 35 or 40. When you're that age, it seems a long way off, doesn't it? It.

But I've worked with some pretty savvy girls at 25 and 30 and they've told me they want to be retired by the time they're 40. I love it. I absolutely love that.

Sue Davies: 01:15:15

And what can we do?

Tracy Fensome: 01:15:17

How can I do this? How can I chat? I want to get this house. I want to do that. And I just think it's, it's brilliant to have a goal like that.

Yeah, but, you know, we're all different ages and we all have different priorities and needs. It varies, doesn't it, from decade to decade?

Sue Davies: 01:15:35

Yeah, definitely, isn't it? I keep fighting it quite.

I keep sort of being quite surprised by the fact that I'm going to be 58 this year and it's like, no, that can't, that can't possibly be. Because it just doesn't feel like that's where I'm at. I still feel like I'm actually, I probably still feel like I'm about 30, but.

But the, yeah, but the body doesn't quite feel so convinced any longer. But it's. I think it's just weird, isn't it?

It's like I keep thinking I was saying something the other day, it's like, my God, I really need to get everything organized because I've got to retire in 10 years. It's like, like I don't want to retire. It's never going to happen. I'm still banging my drum about whatever it is, probably until I go into coffin.

Tracy Fensome: 01:16:11

But I think when you're in a workplace where you're employed and you know your retirement date, maybe that retirement looks more appealing because you don't want to work in that job anymore.

But when you're let's just say your own boss, whether you're solo or whether you've got a salon with 20 staff, whatever, I think it's a very different mindset altogether.

Sue Davies: 01:16:33

Yeah, totally.

Tracy Fensome: 01:16:34

Like you may mentioned one, because you, you love what you're doing. But two, you know, do you need to retire?

Are you going to get an income from the, the salon you've got or the job you're doing, or can you set back and still have an income from it with your staff earning you money so, you know, retire? Yeah. Can you imagine those? So, I mean, what is it, 67 now, isn't it?

Sue Davies: 01:16:57

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:16:58

If today you were 67, can you imagine stopping? No, Completely stopping now. What, what would you, what do you do?

Sue Davies: 01:17:07

I don't know. Well, I suppose I just potter in my garden or something. I don't know what I do, but.

Tracy Fensome: 01:17:12

I'd get bored with that after 10 minutes. And what did you do?

Sue Davies: 01:17:15

This is it.

But I think, and I, I know with all my clients that retired, like when I had, when I had the salon and my clients that did retire, they were busier in retirement than they ever were working because they just they filled their lives with grandchildren and committees and, and activities and going on holiday and doing. You know, they, they were harder to book an appointment with after they'd retired because when they worked, they had such a structure to their lives.

And I think once you, once you aren't working, you don't have that structure, so anything goes kind of thing. It's a totally different way of being.

Tracy Fensome: 01:17:49

Yeah, I, I know people that. My brother's like that particularly. He retired at 64 or 72 now and his life's very busy, busy.

But he's now lost the understanding of why I do what I do and why I'm so busy in my business. I'm doing training, I'm. I'm doing in clinic. He. He can't, he's lost that now. He can't get his head around why.

Sue Davies: 01:18:06

There's no importance to it.

Tracy Fensome: 01:18:08

I'm still doing it, you know, and. But I'm doing it not just for income, I'm doing it for my mind, because I like doing it. And what else would I do? I mean, I've got grandchildren.

My daughter would leave them with me every day if I'd retire. Yeah, I don't want them every day, you know.

Sue Davies: 01:18:24

No. And I think that's a difficult thing, isn't it?

And I think, like, now, because, you know, there's that whole, like we were saying about, you know, the girls now that have that, you know, they have to have it all because they've got no choice. And so therefore the grandparents then have to have the grandchildren.

Tracy Fensome: 01:18:37

Thank God for grandparents. I think it's just very different. Different. Different times.

And, and yes, some people will have a huge pension and they can go off on a boat around the world and. And do you know why not? Why not?

Sue Davies: 01:18:49

Oh, I wish I'd stayed in the NHS and had the pension and stayed there forever, because I'd be laughing now. I'd be. I'd be on early retirement on a final salary pension.

Tracy Fensome: 01:18:59

But, you know, the. But. But people that are their own boss in their business, or had a busy. A business with lots of staff or just a business with small.

It doesn't matter when you. When that's been your day in, day out, must be very, very difficult to let go.

And I have heard my clients say, like, their husbands sold their business, but he goes back because they use him as a consultant. In fact, he's there more now than he was before.

Sue Davies: 01:19:24

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:19:24

You know, so it's like, it's like, when do you let go? And. And also, do you need to let go.

Sue Davies: 01:19:29

Yeah, it's.

Tracy Fensome: 01:19:30

It's, it's a per.

Sue Davies: 01:19:31

It's.

Tracy Fensome: 01:19:32

It's all relative. It's all personal, isn't it? For the time being, I'll be still doing my makeup in clinic.

I'm not just Luton, I'm actually Milton Keynes and I'll still be teaching because I like doing what I'm doing.

Sue Davies: 01:19:45

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:19:46

Like you said.

Sue Davies: 01:19:47

So we probably should wrap up, really. Been yakking for ages of things, haven't we? I know we have, but I think this is a nice thing is like when. When.

Because we've both got sort of fairly similar outlooks on the industry and on, you know, the. The business side of it and everything. And I think it's just interesting to have these conversations.

Tracy Fensome: 01:20:04

But what.

Sue Davies: 01:20:04

So what would be your one message. Message that you want to leave people with about. About making the most of what they have around them? Because that's what it's about, isn't it?

Tracy Fensome: 01:20:14

Yeah, belief. Really believe in themselves and it's easy to say that, but no matter what you're doing right now, there is other opportunities for you.

But just believe in yourself. Just take a look at your business where you want it to be or where you want to be in whenever a year, 18 months, three years is.

And just explore every. The world. There's so much there you can do, people can do irrespective of what business they're in.

But in within the beauty PMU aesthetics industry, there's more you can do if you want to earn more money than just staying in your pigeonhole.

Sue Davies: 01:20:51

Yeah.

Tracy Fensome: 01:20:52

Nothing wrong with people doing that. But I always say to people, always believe, believe in your ability to.

To improve and, and to give and if they want any help, if they want some mentoring or coaching, just want to chat. I'm more than happy to do that. And I always offer chats to people. It makes it sound like it's just a coffee chat, but it normally it starts off.

So if anybody wants to speak to me about anything to do with the per makeup, with the aesthetic side, whether it's training or setting up your clinic, I'm more than happy to give them a free. Cool.

Sue Davies: 01:21:28

And how can people get in touch? Because I know you've got your Tracy Fensom.

Tracy Fensome: 01:21:32

Yeah, you can. So you just put Tracy Fensom in Facebook or Instagram, you find me. Signature Academy is where we do all the training.

So if you put Signer Academy, you'll find us in there. So we're on Facebook. Website is, you know, www.tracy fensom.com or signatureacademy.co.uk you'll find me. Just search for me. I'll come up in Google.

Sue Davies: 01:21:53

I know this is it, isn't it? I'm trying to get into the habit of going just Google me because would you remember that the.

When we were expert empires the other year and I can't remember that, that coach's name, that was the speaker but she was, she was just Google me. Just Google me.

Tracy Fensome: 01:22:09

Just Google me. I'm approachable. I'm more than happy to, you know, have a chat and, and do some, you know, whatever's needed. So yeah, and that's what I do daily.

I'm always speaking to people about the, about the industry and what's available. But do have belief you can, you can achieve and also change or adapt whatever you need in your business.

Sue Davies: 01:22:29

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me. It's taken a while, hasn't it? It's like I know the things.

We all get so busy, don't we, and, and then everything.

Tracy Fensome: 01:22:39

I had to cancel. I think you'd probably tell my throat's still a bit funny but I'm much better. So yeah, it's a good job. Really.

I canceled that too because I don't think anybody, anybody would have been able to understand me.

Sue Davies: 01:22:49

I know, but it's good to have you on and I know we will be doing many. Well, we're going to be going away to Atomicon soon, aren't we? I'm really looking forward to that.

Tracy Fensome: 01:22:56

Yeah. It's about eight weeks away, I think or something like that.

Sue Davies: 01:23:00

Yes. That's exciting.

Tracy Fensome: 01:23:01

Brilliant. Thank you. Well, thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it.

Sue Davies: 01:23:03

That's okay. And if you stay there and I will. We'll finish up on here and then we'll carry on having a little quick chat as well.

Tracy Fensome: 01:23:10

Yeah. Goodbye everybody. Bye.

Sue Davies: 01:23:13

So thank you so much to Tracy for coming on and, and particularly if you're in the PMU and aesthetics world, Tracy is an. Will be an amazing mentor for your business. Business. She's also as we covered, she's been entrepreneurial for a really, really long time.

So she's got so much business skills, knowledge and so whether whatever part of the industry in. She'll be able to give you some great business advice and guidance. So do connect with her. I can't believe we covered.

So we covered a lot of different stuff there and it was funny afterwards we were saying is I had all these questions and what I love about talking to people that, that are so passionate about what they do is I often the conversation just flows and we don't really need the questions because there'll be an interesting point of view, an interesting chat really. So thank you so much for Tracy for coming on and I will see you next time. Bye for now.

Speaker C: 01:24:09

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Sue Davies: 01:25:00

Great ones thank you for listening to inspiring salon production professionals.

If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do subscribe, leave a review and don't forget, share with your fellow industry professionals and other business owners that you think may enjoy the show. Links and further information can be found on the Show Notes or on my website, www.su-davies.com.

all links and further information can be found in the Show Notes and there's also now the option to support the podcast through Buy Me a Coffee. The links for that you can find in the Show Notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.