Niching Your Skin Services with Corneotherpay with Maria Rylott-Byrd

Sue Davies: 00:00:02

Please Note: The transcript is created by AI. Please check any content you use for accuracy.

Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals, the podcast that allows every therapist, now tech and stylist, to level up, build their career and reach for their dreams.

Each episode we'll be looking at a different area of the industry and along the way I'll be chatting with salon owners, industry leaders and experts who will be sharing their stories on how they achieved their goals, made their successes, all to inspire you in your business and career. I'm Sue Davies, your host, award winning salon owner and industry professional. Welcome to Inspiring Salon Professionals.

: 00:00:34

Meet Savior, a luxe nature inspired brand created to transform damaged nails and irritated skin with ingredients like lavender and mango butter, Saviour's nail and skin restoring balm and oil alleviate nail separation, psoriasis, split nail plates and sore skin. Why Saviour? Because nails and skin deserve real, lasting transformation. Inspired by nature, formulated with knowledge, created with experience.

th May: 2025

Sue Davies: 00:01:05

Hi there and welcome back to Inspiring Sun Professionals. We today are going to be welcoming someone who really, really embodies the heart and science of skin therapy. Lady by the name of Maria Rylot Bird.

She's been in the industry for over 35 years, dedicating herself to what she is most passionate about, which is skin Maria's evolution from beauty therapist to skin therapist and now a purist corneotherapist. If you don't know that term, you're going to learn all about corneotherapy today.

And she has inspired a new generation of skin professionals now working exclusively for a limited client base.

In her successful clinic, Maria continues to make waves as the founder of the Corneotherapy Circle, an empowering global community for holistic and functional skin therapies.

She's also the creator of the Habia Indorsons CBD accredited course Epidermal Skin Health, a Corneotherapist essential Guide which gives therapists tools to think beyond brands and deepen their understanding of skin science. Known fondly as Mrs. Corneotherapy, Maria is a passionate mentor and educator and is committed to helping solo clinic owners flourish.

Her story is a testament to the power of niching and the richness of experience and the beauty of following your calling. And I really, I've known Maria for a few years and I've.

We've never, we've always been talking about a lot of other more general business stuff and general industry stuff and so today I'm actually going to hopefully we're going to get inside her mind a little bit and as someone who's Been a skin therapist myself. I feel a bit. Oh, my goodness. I just really didn't realize all this other world existed. And I'd never really heard of corneotherapy.

But so today's about just raising awareness about this part of the industry that is a serious niche. And if you want a niche into something, then maybe this is the thing.

So I'm going to welcome, welcome Maria onto the podcast in a moment and I will see you on the other side. Okay, so, hello, Maria. It's so lovely to have you on here. I know we've been talking about. You've been on here for a little while.

I think it was exile, wasn't it? We were talking back at the beginning of.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:03:14

Yeah, I think so. We. First of all, you spoke about doing one and then obviously you started doing one and then here we are.

Sue Davies: 00:03:20

Yeah, here we are of a sudden. So let's just start talking about your journey. You've been a therapist and gone through to education and now you are kind of like, yeah, Mrs.

Corneotherapy. So what led you down this pathway? Because. And also probably we ought to preface, pre.

Preface this whole podcast with could you tell us about everything that you do and how you've got to where you are, but can you give us a bit of a description about corneotherapy?

Because I was saying in the intro, even as someone who's worked on skin for over 20 years, it wasn't until I met you that I'd even knew what that corneotherapy existed. So this is a really serious niche, but one that can be utilized to get new clients.

So just give us a little bit of history about, about Maria and then about how that led you into corner therapy and a definition of corneotherapy, please.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:04:16

Okay, so, hello, I'm Maria Rutherford and I am the corneotherapy consultant. And my journey began back in the 80s as a traditional beauty therapist.

The white tights brigade, which I know you and I have spoken about often, where standards were high and, and tough, but it was really great foundational training.

And over the years I worked in and managed other people's salons, started their salons from scratch, traveled aboard with what I did, and then had a family and started my own business around the children, really organically to start with, as a lot of us do do. And yeah, worked my way up from my home salon to high street.

Always stayed solo because having run teams in, in for other people, I decided I didn't want to go there. I like to be my own entity. We've discussed that as well.

Sue Davies: 00:05:23

Yes, Indeed.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:05:25

It's.

Sue Davies: 00:05:25

Yeah, it's always, I think teams, teams can have so many benefits. But I think sometimes when you come, when it comes to being your own boss, it's just nice to just be you.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:05:35

Well, I think as a mother with a team of three already. Yeah, that's. That's enough.

Sue Davies: 00:05:42

That's for a break.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:05:44

Exactly, exactly. But a peace and quiet with my clients. So, yeah, obviously had a successful beauty salon and really, skin has always been my passion.

And being old school, you know, we, you know, the science wasn't there for the ingredients, the skin care that was out there. And of course, there's been so much evolution in the technologies and things that have come to the fore over the years.

So, you know, I really was embracing the holistic side of things my whole career until I felt like there was a pressure to go down the aesthetic rate. And I took a little foray into that arena, peeling the skin, etc. And it just made me feel very uncomfortable.

For me, if the skin was healthy, it's going to start to, to look after itself, really. We just need to give it what it needs to do that.

So I found myself pulling away from the aesthetics arena and I didn't know it had a label at that point. And it really was by accident that I found corneotherapy.

I was doing some research, as I do, and I urge anybody to do sort of background reading and stuff around that subject. And I was just reading about corneotherapy and I was like, this is kind of what I do. I am already halfway there, you know.

So I did a little bit more study and research and decided this is what I wanted to embrace fully as a skin therapist. So what is cornea therapy? Well, it's a progressive and a holistic practice, but it's based on the principles of science and it's the skin science.

Effectively, we're working with the skin, not against it. So we're looking at all the functions primarily in the epidermis so that we can effectively get it working correctly and balance homeostasis.

So we are protecting the barrier and encouraging a correct barrier formation so it can do that job.

Sue Davies: 00:08:12

Okay, wonderful. I remember seeing some images that you gave us, doing some education with the tiled roof and all that kind of stuff.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:08:20

That's it. Exactly, exactly. Again, analogies are really useful. I've always used them in clinic with my clients.

Break it down to something really simple so you've got that visual imagery there. So the roof obviously is great. If you've got a broken roof on a house, it's going to leak. And it's exactly the same for skin.

You know, it's as simple as that. So we come in and we, we do everything we can to protect that. So we're not going to ablate the surface of the skin. Yeah.

We're not going to change the PH level of the skin outside of its normal realms. We're going to encourage that skin to work as mother Nature intended. And that comes down to the ingredients that we use as well.

So we're using ingredients that the skin recognizes that are biomimetics. So we're not stressing the skin out in any way.

Sue Davies: 00:09:12

That's it. You're just kind of giving it more of what it already has.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:09:16

Well, yeah, exactly. So if it's healthy.

Sue Davies: 00:09:19

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:09:19

Pretty much is self sufficient.

Sue Davies: 00:09:22

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:09:23

And if we start to see symptoms on the surface of the skin, that's indicative that something's arise. So we want to plug that gap with whatever it is. So we need to recognize what that gap is.

You know, is it happening at the surface is a functional thing from within like stress or diet for example. And we need to address those things. So we're getting to the root cause.

Sue Davies: 00:09:47

That's. And it's a very, very different approach, isn't it? So much skincare now.

I mean I'm just sitting as you're talking about, I'm sort of thinking about the ways that I used to, when I used to do skin, I used to ablate the skin with like microdermabrasion or with pills and, and there's so many ways of. I mean, and I have to say I haven't actually, I don't know the last time I put any kind of pill on my skin. Long time.

And I think there's a whole thing. So, so is it something that we call neotherapy that.

Because I know there's a whole thing about just like I can't think what it's called now where people literally just use water on their face. They don't put anything else on their face. So is that sort of like taking that to another level?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:10:26

Very different.

Sue Davies: 00:10:28

That's very much about letting the skin literally do its own thing, isn't it?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:10:32

So that's the thing is in a perfect world, yeah, that might work.

Sue Davies: 00:10:39

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:10:40

But we do not live in a perfect world. We are surrounded by pollution and grime, you know, so.

And when we're not, you know, we, we're living in stress with high cortisol levels, we're eating ultra processed diets, etc so unless you're sane and you never go out.

It's very hard to, to allow your skin to do what it would naturally do because it's, it's presented with so many different impacts every day and some skins are much more resilient than others. Now if you give your body a healthy lifestyle, then it's obviously going to be a lot more resilient than somebody who doesn't in the longer term.

And I think that's probably the key to it, isn't it?

What's key to healthy living, full stop, is that actually, you know, if we do our bit, our body's going to be kind to us, we're not going to see inflammation in the body, we're not going to get those aching joints etc, and what we see on the skin a lot of the time is inflammation.

Sue Davies: 00:11:47

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think we don't realize, do we?

It's, I mean, I know and especially when I'm on, it always looks much worse when I've got a bit of a red light over. I've got my, a little Moroccan lamp on because of the side of me that's got like red glass and it's fine, I'm proper glowing pink today.

But whenever I'm on screen I do look really inflamed and I often, quite often look very red. But when I look in a mirror, I'm not, It's very. So then it's like, oh, so is that like an underlying thing?

I'm saying, so what you do kind of gets to the root of whether, if there is redness on the skin, why that's there, isn't it? I suppose.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:12:22

Yeah, no, absolutely.

I mean, obviously inflammation is a defense mechanism at the end of the day, but what we don't want is overt inflammation going on and what's triggering it and what, how we think about skin is that it's not one dimensional. Yeah. It's not just here on the surface. You know, effectively those cornea sites, those skin cells are about to fall off, they're dying. Yeah.

So yes, it forms part of the barrier, but it's actually where it starts its journey that's crucial. And we need a healthy cell in the first place to work its way up to the surface to form that barrier.

So we need to think about how we get that healthy cell and if it isn't, why isn't it? So it becomes less about the how and more about the why.

Sue Davies: 00:13:11

Yeah. And so, so like, I mean like my, my, my curious head's now just going, okay, so like When.

So if someone skin is reacting due to underlying like high levels of cortisol and they've got a lot of stress in their lives, so then do. So how can you help them with that kind of thing? So obviously ingredients may, may relieve the symptoms of it and like what's showing on the surface.

So do you. So sorry, this is. I'm just, I'm just. My brain's gone into like, how does that work?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:13:41

I love it.

Sue Davies: 00:13:43

So you've got to do something with ingredients that's going to help reduce the outward appearance of that and to start penetrating into the skin to reduce what's happening to the light as, as deep down as you can.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:13:56

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:13:56

Then how do you deal with that from internal places to make those cells work better? So do you do like holistic practice with them to help them be less stressed or.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:14:07

It is a multifaceted approach. Yeah. Ingredients alone is not the solution.

So I mean where we would start is the story, you know, how is that person living their life to look for the clues, the things that are going on inside and out that could be affecting the skin. Often it's cumulative and often it's multifaceted.

So we want to analyze the skin in the first place and get a diary, if you like of how that person lives their life and where there might be impacts.

Now it may just be as simple as the skincare that they're using topically is not the right skincare for them and it's having an adverse effect and it's impacting the barrier. It's changed the acid mantle, the PH of the skin, it's affected the microbiome on the surface of the skin. It could be as simple as that.

And that's when you, you know, it's a quicker fix, so to speak. So like your perioral dermatitis of the world, you know, usually that's a topical problem where it becomes more interesting, if you like.

And we have to use our sleuth powers is when internal.

Sue Davies: 00:15:25

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:15:26

Now we're all affected by stress.

You know, in this day and age we're not running around away from dinosaurs in the same vein, but we tend to be under that kind of stress all the time.

Sue Davies: 00:15:39

Our flight responses are triggered is I think our subconscious because of the stuff I do with my hypnotherapy. The subconscious is, although we don't have that fight or flight real reasons anymore, our body still recognizes those reactions and quite often.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:15:53

Exactly. And it becomes sustained.

Sue Davies: 00:15:55

No reason at all.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:15:58

Absolutely. Absolutely. People get anxiety when there is no Real stress there for them.

And if you constantly put yourself under that, then you're going to have an impact and that will impact your gut, your second brain, if you like. And then that drives inflammatory responses in the body. So cumulatively that can become an issue. And where we might see it manifest is on the skin.

But that inflammation is causing us a problem for our cellular health.

Sue Davies: 00:16:34

Yeah, absolutely.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:16:36

And cells are what drives everything within our body, not just our skin.

Sue Davies: 00:16:40

Yeah. And so would it. So within corneotherapy, would you be like.

I mean, there's like a lot of classic things, isn't there, that's been that I know I've learned over the years as being a therapist is that, you know, like the chin area most often is going to relate to gynecological issues. Yep. And the cheek area around that cheekbone is going to. Is like your wine and dine area is how I was taught it. And so are you looking for clues?

So you'll be looking for clues in those areas because, I mean, you know, that's probably goes back to some of the most natural skin care that any of us ever learn. And so corneotherapy is actually part of everything we do as a skin.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:17:15

100%. 100%.

Sue Davies: 00:17:16

It's just that it. But just that we kind of, so much now we've kind of gone on to sort of like far more invasive and aggressive ways of managing that.

And in actual fact, so if you see someone come in that has got, you know, pustules on their, on their cheeks and so on, or has, you know, has a big spot that suddenly appeared on the right side of their jaw, you know, you're going to be able to go, actually this is quite possibly related and it will give you the opportunity to put your sleuth powers to the test kind of thing.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:17:44

Yeah, that's part of it. You mentioned it before about symptoms.

We've become an industry that attaches a solution to a symptom, rather than actually thinking about why the skin might be doing that in the first place, why that symptom is manifesting from wherever. And we need to understand more deeply how the skin's actually functioning in the first place.

So first and foremost, why we need those cells to be healthy, the cell membrane to be healthy, why we. To form that barrier efficiently, how that protects us.

And so if none of those things are happening properly, we're going to see symptoms because our defense systems aren't happening properly. If we add into the mix poor diet, stress, etc. We're compounding the problem.

So we look three in a 360 degree approach really at everything that's going on, attach it to how the skin should be functioning.

Sue Davies: 00:18:54

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:18:55

And then we can come in and plug any gaps with the ingredients to support the skin topically removing any environmental factors that might be impacting the skin and gradually trying to address what's going on on the inside. So, you know, any dysbiosis in the gut, etc. Stress levels, cortisol levels, that sort of thing.

But those of course won't change overnight and sometime times it's a medical condition so they're on medication and we can't actually change the fact that they've got to take those, those meds.

So all we can do is get the skin to a point where it's as healthy as possible, the body's as healthy as possible, but it's always going to have limitations. So it's, it's trying to create homeostasis about balance in the skin at all times, given what you're given.

Sue Davies: 00:19:47

Yeah.

And so one of the things that's just popped into my head is I remember seeing, oh, years ago on tv there was a program, I think it was just called the Retreat or something along those lines and they used to take off a group of people to go to a retreat wherever it was in the world. And I used to, you know, spend their days doing yoga and sound bars and.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:20:08

Sounds like it nice.

Sue Davies: 00:20:09

Yeah, it was.

And eating pure like vegan diet and you know, they were only drink water or fruit, you know, like unprepared fruit or untreated fruit juices or whatever is very, very natural. And there was two people on there, one who had really severe acne and there was another person, a guy who had really quite serious psoriasis.

But basically what they did with both these people was they, they did what you're talking about and they, they cleansed them from the inside out.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:20:39

Yep.

Sue Davies: 00:20:39

And both these people, and I've said, especially with people with psoriasis over the years when I've had clients is I've said like, you really need to go and find this program because you know, you're covering yourself with all these creams and lotions and potions and it is really not helping your skin and so you need to, you need to go and do this. So this program was amazing. But he literally turned it around and even they went away for like two weeks. I think it was two weeks or a month.

It wasn't, it wasn't a long period of time. But just over that Short period of time, his psoriasis flares had reduced by probably something like 50%.

It was amazing just watching being less stressed eating. I mean it wasn't, I mean you couldn't get any cleaner because it was vegan.

And that's not to say that any other diets aren't going to help you as well. But that vegan diet, I mean it was all like, you know, it was all raw food. I think might have even, it might have gone further than vegan.

I think it was just raw food, like raw fruit and veggies and that was it. And his, he literally changed. He lost like a stone and a half or something. His, his whole skin changed.

So with what you do with corneotherapy, this is, sorry, this was the point I was trying to make was, is with corner therapy, can you then treat people beyond. You know, because we as therapists we think of the skin as being, you know, the, from the colletage up, don't we?

We sort of, that's where we kind of work in that, in that space as a skin therapist. But when you're talking therapy, can you treat people body wise as well as.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:22:02

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:22:03

On their facial skin and do.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:22:05

Absolutely, absolutely. So your eczemas, your psoriasis, your itchy kosis, your acne, your rosacea, these are all, they're all actually driven by inflammation.

This is the common thread in an awful lot of skin issues. There are. We're living in a world of self sabotage, if you like, where people are causing the problems themselves.

We're driven by an industry that are kind of just following the protocol calls a lot of therapists, particularly in this realm of one day courses and things, they don't have a deeper understanding of the skin science.

Sue Davies: 00:22:41

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:22:42

And from where I sit, I believe that if you're practicing as a skin therapist, you have a duty to understand how the skin functions because otherwise you're not really doing any more than the client can do for themselves by buying stuff off the shelf. You know, they're coming to solve a problem that they couldn't solve themselves.

So I think we have a duty of care to understand more than our client does. And to critical think, you said it earlier about critical thinking. We, we need to think for ourselves.

We've become an industry who rely on what the brands tell us and those brands aren't in front of us that, you know, with this, with the client, you know, so we have to start to read the skin for ourselves, adapt accordingly. And that takes knowledge, intuition and experience. At the end of the Day.

Sue Davies: 00:23:37

And I think as well, is it something like, especially within the NOW sector that I've been so prevalent in for so many years, is that, you know, like, we, we work and we, we knowingly work with a lot of very harmful chemicals. In skin care, there are some very harmful chemicals, but mostly what we work with are relatively.

They're aimed at being therapeutic ingredients, whereas in nails, everything we do is. Is pretty toxic, really. It's not, it's not. They're not nice products when you come down to what the chemicals are.

So in nails, I think you have more of a duty, and maybe more of a recognized duty to understand what the ingredients do.

So you need to understand what a dihema is or you need to understand what a methylmethylate is or whatever, so you get lots of the big fancy Latin names that you need to understand.

Whereas I think in skin, unless you're getting into the things like pills and stuff, and you have to understand that bit of the science, I think if you're, you know, if you're applying X brand cleanser, X brand moisturizing lotion cream, etcetera, you're far less likely to investigate the ingredients, aren't you?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:24:44

Yeah, because.

Sue Davies: 00:24:45

Because the brand tell. Because the brands tell you.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:24:48

Yeah. That's for sensitive skin. That's the dry skin.

Sue Davies: 00:24:51

Yes.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:24:52

It works. Done for you.

Sue Davies: 00:24:53

And you don't. And we don't. Especially in today's world.

I think probably the education that you received back in the 80s as the White tights brigade was so thorough that you probably were given that level of education, or even if you weren't given the full package of it, you were given the curiosity to investigate.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:25:11

Absolutely.

Sue Davies: 00:25:12

And I think now in education, we aren't given the curious. We don't have time for the curiosity of education and knowledge.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:25:19

Do you know what I think it is, particularly when it comes to anatomy and physiology, come back to that term one dimensional again.

You learn everything flat on a piece of paper and what you don't learn is how to bring it together as a sort of 3D imagery of how it all interacts together. It's all very well to learn about eukaryotic cell, a skin cell, keratin, asai.

But what you don't understand is how that then goes on to form the barrier. You learn it separately. And we need to start bringing education together so that people can make this visual picture. So they have the aha moments.

Oh, that's how that links together.

Sue Davies: 00:26:05

Because it's. I mean, I've seen and I see this Quite a lot on LinkedIn because I'm. And I don't know why I don't sit on Facebook.

I really don't know why I don't sit on Facebook. Maybe because the educators aren't on Facebook in that way.

But on LinkedIn, many, many colleges put on how they're teaching their students at level two beauty and they actually get them like, honestly, I love it. You get. They start body painting all of what's underneath.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:26:31

Yes.

Sue Davies: 00:26:32

I love it because it really helps them understand, like they're painting on muscle structures and stuff.

And I love it when I see it because it's, you know, it's so out of the box in comparison to the education that I received, you know, and I, I studied at a good private college for my level two beauty or my level two facials, because I do. I did all mine in different units because I, I, yeah, I got.

My beauty side's a bit of a mess of my education, but I've got, I've got a few level 2 modules, but alongside an awful lot of, like, other stuff as well. It's very weird education I had for that side. All my now stuff, it's all like level two, level three, and all my holistics is all level three.

But my beauty bit is a bit of a. It's a bit of a. But I had so many other foundational educations around that that I literally just went in and did the modules I wanted to do anyway.

Not important.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:27:23

But.

Sue Davies: 00:27:24

But I do think he's like, I wasn't taught in that way. It was very much like, there's the book, go and read it. And then. Because actually someone's face and do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:27:34

And that's the point, isn't it? It's. The theory is seen as the boring bit.

Sue Davies: 00:27:40

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:27:41

But actually it's fundamental. Yeah. Because it's the application of that theory that we're interested in and that's what brands as a whole are taking away from us. You know, they.

They're giving us these protocols with all these products to use said products to, you know, safely. And I get that bit safely bring an outcome but so much more to that picture. As a skin expert, we can do so much more.

It's not just about understanding skin conditions, it's about understanding healthy skin first. Because we understand how healthy skin works, we can then start to pick up why the skin conditions occur.

Sue Davies: 00:28:25

Yeah. And I think as well, it's like.

And I was today, as a classic example, and anyone watching will say, I'm Actually, I'm in my, I'm in my work uniform today. I have been doing clients this morning, and this morning I did a. I was doing lava shell massage for somebody and it's the first like.

And I, and I did say to her, I haven't done this, this particular massage for a really long time because everybody just books me to do a lava shell back massage. So I haven't actually had to do a full body lava shell massage for, I'm not gonna lie, years. I haven't done one.

Possibly even, I think I might have done one or two after I trained, and that was it. And I trained quite a long time ago. So I had today to go, okay, so what, what do I remember? What do I know? How, how can I make this work?

But, but I think kind of to a degree, what, you know, what we're both talking about with, like, the education that we receive is that my education in massage was that good, that I know I've. And I've learned over the years that any massage you ever learn is about reusing all of that foundation knowledge that you had.

And so today I didn't have to get any manuals out, I didn't have to get all of my instructions out because I just went, okay, I know that part of the shell does that. I know that part of the shell does this other bit this replicates that.

So I was able, on a, just off the cuff to be able to create massage that she thought was the most amazing thing she'd had.

And I wasn't following the protocol because I didn't need to, because my foundation knowledge is that good, that I can just wing it and understand what muscles I'm working over. Understand. Actually, I put on, use that bit of the shell there because that's going to go near bone and it isn't.

And I think that that's kind of what it is that you're saying, like corneotherapy does is it gives you that solid foundation, that scientific understanding, the amp that underpins anything and allows you the freedom to be able to look at the ingredients. Like, for me today, it's my lava shells.

For you, it might be like a, you know, different types of cleansers or moisturizers or products that are going to make a change to that skin and just go, actually, I know I need, you know, today I need BD, F and X. And that's going to create that, that magic moment for that client.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:30:42

Yeah.

So within, within corneotherapy, if we're really going to be working with true Corneotherapy or purest cornea therapy that I call it, we will embrace a cornea therapeutic brand and a cornea therapeutic brand, there is only two in the world will follow the principles and practices of cornea therapy to the letter. So that is, the ingredients are biomimetic, meaning they're wholly positive for the, the skin because the skin recognizes it.

So your lipids, for example, you know, your squalene, all those things that mimic body function, skin functions.

And then if we have any other ingredients in there, which of course we do need to bring in things to preserve a product, for example, they're either going to have a neutral effect on the skin or there's no negative effect in any way.

So on that subject, we avoid fragrances often when you're working with a compromised skin, we don't want a fragrance there anyway because it's just stressing that skin out a little bit more. We don't work with emulsifiers. We, we, we don't use parabens, we don't use anything that the skin doesn't recognize. So we go all into that.

And when you start to do that, you start to have an understanding of ingredients on a much deeper level because you've, you've got a different kit if you like, you're, you're going, you're going uphill against the crowd. And, you know, you need to understand what it is you're doing differently and why you're doing it differently.

And most of the ingredients that we're using, as I say that they're nature's version of, sometimes they're synthetic versions because they're more stable, but generally they're nature's versions of something the skin is naturally producing. So that we can just reintroduce there to balance things out.

Again, whether that's to seal the barrier, to feed, replenish the multilaminar lipids in the skin surface, or to start, you know, making that keratin site healthier down at the basal layer. So, yeah, it's about thinking where in the skin we need to be, where it's got an issue, how we can plug the gap, bringing all the knowledge together.

And I don't want people to feel like they're inadequate because they don't necessarily have this knowledge. Because we talked about, you know, foundational training that's quite limited. Foundational training even at level three.

Yeah, it might be one dimensional, but actually what they're teaching is, is quite limited as well. There's a lot of content to get through. So where the Learning comes for corneotherapy is in that extended learning. Yeah.

It's about, you know, the research, it's about the community, it's about learning from one another and it's about. About honing in on your craft.

Sue Davies: 00:33:55

Yeah, absolutely. And so then that leads us and segues perfectly into your course, Epidermal skin health.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:34:04

So Epidermal skin health.

Sue Davies: 00:34:06

I mean, like you're saying it's like all of. And this. And I think really, this is.

It's a key understanding point of like, you know, the difference between what you learn to get your regulated qualification or your, your foundation qualification. And then this is true cpd. And this is absolutely. And this is, is not for people that don't understand already.

They don't have some foundation knowledge. This has to. You have to have an underpinning knowledge before you do anything.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:34:33

With Maria, it really wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Sue Davies: 00:34:39

It's like, you know, I mean, I don't do skin in the way. In that way anymore at all. But it still fascinates me the, the detail that you go to, because it's just.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:34:49

And that's not the half of it.

Sue Davies: 00:34:50

You know, I think if I was still. If I still have my salon business, I'd be going, okay, actually, this is where I want to go because.

So tell us about the course and what it actually what it offers to people.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:35:01

Yes.

Sue Davies: 00:35:02

So how that can make them a different type of business.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:35:06

So I belong to an association, a corneotherapy association, and they have a training.

We don't have a qualification as such in our field currently, we're a global community, so that becomes quite a difficult thing to put into place anyway. And my association, the iac, has, does have a training.

But what I was having done it myself when I first started out, it's up there, you know, and I'm. I'm not. I've done my level three, I've done some level four stuff. I'm constantly reading and researching as, you know, I write and I speak. But it.

I found it challenging. Yeah. Because some of the terminology I wasn't familiar with because we weren't taught it, you know, so. And I.

What I found was a lot of cornea therapists, because I work with cornea therapists now, mostly they were not joining the association and doing the training because they didn't feel confident to do it. They didn't feel they had the basic knowledge to do it.

Sue Davies: 00:36:18

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:36:18

So I thought this was a great shame because actually a lot of really potentially wonderful cornea therapists, because they've got the right ethos. Were not coming to the craft.

Sue Davies: 00:36:29

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:36:29

So I decided I needed to bridge the gap and so I set about writing a course that was a stepping stone from our foundational training and what we know in the treatment room, particularly here in the uk, because obviously that's who I work with to bridge this gap to the. The IAC training. Because I want to bring more people into the field because it's such an amazing way to treat skin.

And, and that's how it came about, really.

And I wanted to bring it into that whole 3D picture in people's minds, but layer it back from that basic knowledge about a cell because it's not just, you know, a shape on a piece of paper, actually.

It's fundamental to everything that we do with skin and understand why it's so important how it communicates with the other cells, what the skin itself is responsible for in the body. You know, this is our largest organ in the body.

Sue Davies: 00:37:34

I was, I was. Took the words out of my mouth. It is a functioning organ. Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:37:41

And the industry has abused it for years and obviously we've moved over the years into the realms of, you know, these ablative treatments, the quick fix treatments, and that's not really serving the skin. So I just wanted to bring something to the table for aspiring cornea therapists. Cornea therapists who.

Refreshing their knowledge, but also all skin therapists because it's, it's knowledge that everybody can benefit from if they're working with skin.

And it's just that deeper understanding, but in a way that's, you know, it's not dumbing down the science, but it's in an understandable way that builds a picture in your mind.

Sue Davies: 00:38:27

And I think as well is that we spend a lot of time in salon industry that when we go and do something advanced, we, we. It has to be like you're going to get a treatment out of it kind of thing that you want, you want a new service.

And I think it's quite rare that you actually do a CPD course that actually just grows your knowledge base. Yeah, it's. It's not very often that you get a theoretical course as an advanced course, is it?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:38:54

No, Javier said it was quite rare. Javier have endorsed it, you know, and yeah, they have said it is quite a rare thing because there's not a lot of impartial knowledge out there.

You know, I always say, like to say, you know, get the knowledge, get the basis there and then from there you can make informed decisions about things because there's a lot of pseudoscience out there.

There's a lot of marketing spiel out there and the industry has been led for far too long by brands and I'm not knocking brands, we all use skin care but, you know, it's our knowledge that's the key. That's what makes us the expert, not products that you use. It's our, our knowledge and I bring that back to the fore and I.

Sue Davies: 00:39:39

Think it is, you know, like, we need to use any, any.

Doesn't matter whether it's skincare, whether it's body care, whatever it is, we need to use that as a support for the knowledge that we have and that we can, we can recommend it because we understand what's going on with that person's skin, that person's. Whether it's on, that's on their face or on their body.

And same for people that do hair, you know, is that, you know, we, as a, as a hair stylist, you've got to understand what that product's going to do to the hair and, and you can't recommend it and especially for someone.

Although obviously when you see me on these videos, I've got very, very short hair, but my hair is long, it's very curly and, and as someone who has curly hair issues, when I've had people recommend stuff to me over the years, not that I don't frequent hairdressers massively when I've got curly hair, because over the years I've just found it not to be helpful because A, they weren't taught properly how to do A, curly hair and then B, the, a lot of the companies that do curly hair, they don't work with my curly hair. It's just, and it's, you know, it's not a one size fits all just because, oh, you've got curly hair, therefore this is what you're going to need.

But actually we know that that isn't the case. And it's the same with, with skin as well, isn't it? Is it?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:40:49

You know, it's unique. Every skin is unique and it's all being influenced by.

Every skin is being influenced by so many different variables that, you know, to have something off the shelf, one size fits all, it's impossible to have a cure all. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of the time when people find a cornea therapist, they're at the end of the road, they're in despair.

You know, they've tried everything, nothing's getting there. Because the solution isn't only a topical solution.

Sue Davies: 00:41:24

No, you've got to look at the whole picture, haven't you? And I think that, you know, we were saying when we, before we started recording is that, you know, both of us operate in a very holistic way.

And, you know, you operate holistically with skin. I operate quite holistically with bodies.

And, and sort of like getting people to look at their whole picture is one of the reasons I did hypnotherapy was because so often when you have someone presenting to you with any.

Anything that's anxiety driven and whether that is skin or with bodies and muscles, you know, you've got to look at the bigger picture and, you know, trying to help someone, you know, stop that fight flight thing is really, really important. And so for me, that whole holistic approach just, it just is like, why wouldn't you so.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:42:05

Absolutely. And we're not. I mean, I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not a doctor. I'm not. So there's, it's.

You've got to stay in your scope, obviously, but there's also common sense. You know, there's an intelligence here. And this is where we come back to that critical thinking again.

If you ask the right questions, it leads you to the right answers and then you can make the client aware of where the problems are.

Now, if you think there is an issue that you cannot solve, you know, with that client, you can refer them on to the right person for that help and we can all start to work collaboratively as a team of holistic therapists. You know, I think it's so important.

Sue Davies: 00:42:47

Yeah. And I think it is just sort of recognizing as well, you know, that.

And I can remember when I did my first big course doing a whole section on signposting. And, and I think, you know, that we do have a responsibility for going actually. Yeah.

I can only Support you with 30 of what you need, but you actually also need to have like the nutritionist and you need to have a personal trainer because you need to look at this in such a full way or a homeopath or whatever, you know, whatever way you want to send them them. But to be able to say, actually I.

And be truthful with people, have that transparency to add to your credibility of you as an expert because you're actually. I recognize that's not my expert field. Here's an expert that can help you.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:43:27

The other thing is, though, I mean, that's huge. The other part is the client themselves needs to take ownership.

Sue Davies: 00:43:35

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:43:36

You know, we've talked about it already with. We Live in this quick fix world and they think, you know, they just, they just want an instant answer. They're not prepared to wait.

You know, skin's not going to fix overnight if it's broke, you know, it's.

Sue Davies: 00:43:49

Going to be at least a 28 day cycle.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:43:52

At least 28 days, exactly.

More if you're aging, if there's a problem, more again, you know, so we need to be real with our clients and explain that this isn't an overnight thing.

But if they embrace home care routine, for example, you know, they see us once a month, maybe it's what they do for themselves every day at home, really important. And that's not just their skin care. That's what they put in their mouth, that's how much water they drink, that's how much sleep they get.

It's managing their stress levels. You know, wearing their spf. All of these things, they, they're the ones who have to actually do it because, you know, we're not miracle workers.

Sue Davies: 00:44:32

No.

So obviously like now you, you have made a niche in corneotherapy and so, and I know you've had a very successful clinic doing that and now you've paired it back a little bit more and you're a little bit more exclusive.

But is it so for most, for anybody that, that, that does skin, so to speak, is it so it's something that you can add into your, your, into your business and actually make a good living out? Because I think though there is a tendency now, is it now do. So I think we are beginning to see a little bit of a shift back to more natural.

And I always look at nails as a big guide. And there's so much French going on at the moment because it's how people present themselves, isn't it?

Like nails is one of the biggest things of like how people present. And there's an awful lot of very natural looking nails around at the moment. There's always like soap nails and whatever.

But, but there's a very sort of big movement I feel towards natural. And so maybe now's a really good time to start doing corneotherapy because it is such so much more natural and so much more holistic.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:45:35

Like people, I think. Yeah, I know. I think you're absolutely right. There has definitely been a movement towards natural.

I hate that word because what does it actually mean? It's just a marketing term.

But if we're talking about towards the way the body functions naturally, I think definitely people are more mindful in general about their health. I think Covid Had a lot to do with that. And the wonderful thing about corneotherapy is obviously we're getting to the root cause.

Sue Davies: 00:46:10

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:46:11

But we can also deliver a holistic experience as well. So it's a win, win scenario, isn't it?

You're still having your, your pamper session, if you like, but we're actually caring for the skin in an intelligent way, working with it, not against it. So, you know, I think, think, you know, it's, it's having a moment globally because skin barrier became trendy, became a little bit of a buzzword.

And this is where it becomes a bit challenging because there are a lot of people out there who say they're championing the skin barrier, so they, they must consequently be a cornea therapist. But then, you know, they prep the skin and they still pale the skin.

So, you know, you kind of, you can't really be half in and half out to my mind, which is why I call myself a purist. And within my association we talk about it as true cornea therapy. So we're fully following fully the principles and the practices.

So that takes us into the abstinence of certain treatments which would be considered non cornea therapeutic. You know, you could quite easily have something that you would think is, and then the misuse of one ingredient makes it non cornea therapeutic.

So there's a lot of studying that goes into it.

Sue Davies: 00:47:40

Yeah, it may be like the difference between veganism and vegetarianism kind of thing.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:47:44

Yeah, absolutely. Just the little nuances can make, make all the difference.

But if you've got a compromised skin, a really struggling barrier for whatever reason, and it's manifesting with dehydration, so flaky skin, for example, with a little bit of inflammation. And you know, what are we told to do when there's dehydrated, flaky skin? Scrub it, you know, peel it, do whatever.

You know, if that skin is, that barrier is compromised and you do that, really you're just compounding the problem. Problem. It's not solving the problem. It might look smoother for a little bit, but actually you're creating a vicious cycle.

Sue Davies: 00:48:25

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:48:26

Better to fix the problem in the first place.

Sue Davies: 00:48:28

I think this is the thing as well, is that you have to, that we have to remember the foundation of everything is that any action against the skin, the skin will have a reaction.

And so, and I do think that, you know, I mean, I know from many, many years of pedicuring, you take too much that hard skin away, this foot's going to just create another whole load of hard skin to protect itself.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:48:50

Exactly that. Exactly that mindset. That's exactly what it's going to do. It's, you know, we see the same with pigment.

You know, you come with harsh, aggressive treatment of pigment. At some point you're going to get the bounce back. Yeah.

You know, you're solving the problem in the short term, but you've made a bigger problem in the longer term.

Sue Davies: 00:49:10

Oh, it's, you know, it is such a fascinating subject and I think it's something that if, if anybody listening does skin, I think it's really, really worth going, investigating even. Not Even if you don't necessarily want to become a purist. Corneotherapist.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:49:23

No. Well, it's. It doesn't hurt.

Sue Davies: 00:49:26

Understand, just to understand.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:49:29

Yeah.

Sue Davies: 00:49:29

All of this stuff that goes into being a cornea therapist will enhance your practice, won't it? It's. It.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:49:36

Absolutely. I mean, same way I want to understand how modalities work, whether I use them or not.

In my group, we do a lot of talks and there's a lot of modalities. They're cornea therapeutic modalities I invite into the group.

I don't offer the treatments, but I want to understand them, and I think that makes us a good therapist. Then when our clients come to us and they say, oh, I've been reading about this treatment, I've heard about this treatment. What do you think?

Sue Davies: 00:50:05

Think, yeah, this is it.

It's like, you know, I mean, I know even just the con like that, you know, the very informal conversations I've had with you and reading your article and stuff, it's given me a curiosity about what it's about and, and want. As I said, I don't need to have that knowledge now, but if I, if I was still working in skin in that way, I'd want to have this knowledge. So.

And I know, like you just mentioned, you do have a community on Facebook as well, don't you? The cornea therapy circle where people can join, that's all free and they can come and pick your brain and have like. Yeah. And all that kind of stuff.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:50:40

So as I mentioned, so cornea therapy is, Is growing around the world, globally. But, you know, compared to other things, you know, we're still relatively small.

And I created a community that was impartial, away from the brands, so that we could come together, all of us, you know, we're not set within our boundaries of our brand to discuss, to share, to grow, to learn, because none of us know it all. Yeah. Sometimes we just need to Bounce an idea of somebody.

And that's not to take away, that's not, we're not asking for someone to tell us how to treat the skin with cross referencing. You know, I've got this situation, this is what I'm thinking about doing. You know, would you do the same or is there anything you do different?

Can I pick the, you know, your experience and, and it works. And, and within that group now we've got some real movers and shakers from my world.

And they're all interacting and making use of the group, which is wonderful. It's created a sense of community globally. It wasn't meant to be global, but it became global. And that's, I just, just wondered.

Sue Davies: 00:51:59

But I think this is the thing when you niche like this is that although it, you sort of, you know, your focus, you're hyper focusing on something, but because of that, it allows it to be quite expensive and, and because people from all around the globe want to be part of that little tiny niche that in action.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:52:16

Just mention it's not just cornea therapists because I, it's really important that it's open up to, you know, holistic therapists, aspiring cornea therapists, functional therapists. Because at the end of the day, how can you learn about it? If we make it a close shot?

Sue Davies: 00:52:36

Yeah, yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:52:37

So, you know, some, you've got to have an interest in skin and understanding skin in a different way. And generally how people come to cornea therapy is they're starting to question the narrative of how we treat skin.

And either they've experienced an issue with the skin they're treating, they're not getting anywhere, they've plateaued, you know, or, you know, they just feel that there's a different way, a more holistic way, and they want to work under with understanding the skin as opposed to just slapping on products.

Sue Davies: 00:53:12

Yeah. And I just love the fact that it's just, it just allows you to have like, it's like proper geeky, isn't it really?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:53:20

Are you calling me a case?

Sue Davies: 00:53:22

Oh, maybe.

But I, I, but I love this kind of, I do, whenever, whatever, I've done training, I, I do, I love that, that extra knowledge stuff that you have because when you're sitting in front of your clients and you can, you can bore them with science.

I always used to be my son and my cousin who worked with me, she was just, there'd be like a new products or whatever and I'd be going, oh, what about it? Is she just like, just listen to her. She does the Science. And I'm here for the last kind of thing. And it was.

And you know, and our partnership worked very, very well because I was always there for the science. I do love all of that, that geeky detail of, like, how this is going to work.

And, and it is like I was saying, that massage thing is like how, how you put all that together and understanding, you know, like, even things with like, like bamboo massage, you know, you learn all these routines. And I think this is what I was trying to get to is like you learn all these routines and actually you don't need them.

What you actually need is a foundation knowledge to be able to take any instrument to make it work for you. Well, obviously, with what you do, you do need specific instruments. But. But to be able to take those specific instruments and make it work.

Because your underpinning knowledge is so solid.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:54:30

Yeah, well, I mean, absolutely.

If I'm doing a facial massage within a treatment and, you know, all their lymph nodes are blocked for me, what's the point of carrying on with that facial massage to do the rest of the face? Because it's the protocol.

Sue Davies: 00:54:50

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:54:51

I haven't released the problem.

Sue Davies: 00:54:53

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:54:54

To me, that's, you know, it's madness, really. You know, I mean, obviously want to discuss it with the client and just say, you know, you've got a bit of an issue here today.

I'm going to focus here, if that's okay with you. And. Yeah, but they're here to have their problems solved. You can. It can still be a very relaxing experience.

Sue Davies: 00:55:16

And I think it's just sort of like recognizing, isn't it, that not every treatment's a routine treatment is.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:55:22

How boring is that if every day you're doing the same thing all day, every day?

Sue Davies: 00:55:27

Adaptation to every client. Anyway, probably I think we. I think we've. We covered everything.

We haven't covered everything in corneotherapy, but I really hope we've been able to give people a different insight into what it is and how you can take your skin knowledge to a place that enables you to create something in your business that can, A, really help your clients, B, help you grow as a professional and say, make you a real expert in your area. Because there aren't that many people that offer this level of service or this type of service.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:56:02

Well, certainly from where I am, this is, this is a core training. This is a foundational training, cpd, as you mentioned. And once you understand this information, it makes the progression a lot easier. Yeah.

So when we start to talk about the science behind skin conditions, the language is there, you know, that knowledge in your mind, how it's all piecing together.

For example, if we do come on to hyperpigmentation and melanogenesis, for example, you know, it all starts to fall into place rather than doing everything in isolation.

Sue Davies: 00:56:40

Yeah, absolutely. So how. First of all, actually, before we get to how can people get in touch with you?

Let's just like this season I've been asking people for quotes and the quote you gave me was, let the beauty of what you love be what you do. So what does it, what, what is it about that quote that kind of talks to you and why you. You love it so much? Much.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:57:00

I think it would be a very sad life if you were to be working and not loving what you do.

Sue Davies: 00:57:10

Yeah.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:57:11

Because let's be honest, most of us have to work. You know, I mean, I think I probably would still do this if I didn't, but. And that's the point, isn't it? You know, I do it for the love of it.

Every day I learn something new and every day I'm inspired by somebody in the industry that we work in as well. And. And I just think for me to be able to inspire people to reimagine the way they work with skin, I think is. Is a gift to give.

But yeah, as I say, every day I'm inspired by people too.

And sometimes it's big knowledge that I learn, other times it's just I see how the cogs start to piece, piece together because as I say, I'm still learning. I do not know it all. It would be a very sad day for me to assume I did.

Sue Davies: 00:58:00

Yeah, absolutely. So then the final question is, how can people connect with you? Where's the best place for them to find you? Where are you hanging out nowadays, Maria?

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:58:10

Oh, probably the easiest. I'm on Instagram and Facebook. I tend to use Instagram. I say that you've got the group, the Facebook group, that's the Cornea therapy circle.

But you will find all the links to everything that I do, my mentoring as well as my course in my website, which is www.thecorneotherapy consultant.co.uk and all.

Sue Davies: 00:58:36

Details will be in the show notes. Yeah, because I do. We do have a whole show notes as well. So everything will be in there as well.

But do you are a skin specialist and you want to understand a deeper knowledge base, then definitely reach out to me and go, go and sit in her circle because it will really help you. Because the thing I think as well is this just like minded people when.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:59:01

You have like minding people and, and a different perspective.

Yeah, because we have been fed a narrative for a very long time which you know, I'm not saying anybody's wrong but as a specialist, as a professional, as an expert, you know, you should be the one making the judgment, not you being told.

Sue Davies: 00:59:24

Yep, absolutely. So we will leave it there.

So thank you so much for coming on Maria and, and I know we have got exciting, a good, exciting year ahead of us and stuff we've been talking about before we came on. So thank you very much for coming in. Are coming on to the podcast and yeah, we will speak again later.

Maria Rylott-Byrd: 00:59:43

Thank you.

Sue Davies: 00:59:44

Okay, so that was Maria Rylet Bird, the corneotherapy consultant.

And, and she was just saying to me after we finished this, she's got some really exciting stuff coming up this summer that is going to potentially be quite, quite great for her, quite great for the industry. So that's all good.

I really hope you learned a lot from that because corneotherapy is like we were saying, I'd never heard of it until I met Maria and, and I think it's an area of skin that should be investigated if you do skin.

You know, there does seem to be a, you know, we've had so many years of like quite aggressive treatments on the skin and quite invasive things happening, whether that's with needles or just with different materials that are used or different equipment that's used. And so sometimes it's quite nice to get back to basics, isn't it? And just, just nice to, to just simplify things a little bit.

Although obviously the knowledge is not quite as simple because you've got to go deep into the skin knowledge.

But I think if you are someone who works with skin and you want to understand better why the skin presents in the way that it does corneotherapy and the education that Marie is offering is something that may really help you niche down, may really help you stand out because not A, not everybody's going to want to do this, B, not everybody's going to be able to this because the knowledge level is quite high and that that in the intellectual side of it and the academic side of it might be too much for some people.

You may want to stay at like level 2 knowledge that may be where you are and they may be what you love doing or level three, it may be what you love doing, but this takes it to a slightly different level but well worth thinking about. Do go check her out. All the details as always will be in the show.

Notes and I really, really hope that you get something out of today's episode and that you have a new tip of an arrow that can go into your arrow sheath and that you can put in your bow and help out more clients in a different way. So that's it for this week. Thank you so much for listening.

We are at this point we've got, we've gone beyond where I was going with this, with this season. And, and I am now this season will end at episode 100. And I think I might have said this before, so I'm gonna.

We've got another few weeks to the podcast and yeah, we've got some interesting ones. I've got. We're gonna have another one on Clubhouse, I think. So as soon as I've got the dates for that, I will let you know.

But it looks like it may be an evening one which hopefully be better for people. That's it and I'll speak to you next time. Bye for now.

: 01:02:27

Is your salon delivering the exceptional client journey you've always envisioned? The Salon Inspector, led by industry expert Sue Davies, is here to help you elevate every step of the client experience.

From the moment clients discover your salon online to the ease of booking and the clarity of your service offerings, every detail counts. The Salon Inspectors Client Experience Audit offers a digital mystery shop of your business.

Featuring a thorough review of your brand inconsistency, online presence and client communication, sue assesses the touch points you've created to ensure a seamless and memorable experience that keeps clients coming back again and again ready to transform your salon's client journey. Visit Sue Davies.com to schedule your audit today. The Salon Inspector Turning good experiences into great ones.